HockeyDad Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Reality is in the eye of the beholder around DCP. I made special effort to compare 2010 and 2011 run-through audience numbers and I saw very little difference. I also saw very little difference between 2009 & 2010. I'm sure others (you) may see it differently...but I promise not to accuse you of revisionism. That's ok, I wasn't talking about 2009 or 2010 or 2011. I was talking about 2012. Not in comparison to other years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 . Was it a widley popular show? no.... Hey, you and I are in violent agreement! Because that's all my point was, they won with a show that wasn't widely popular. Is that a problem? Only time will tell if that drives paying customers away. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) It's certainly interesting to note how people responded to Star of Indiana's "Medea" show of 1993. Now, look at how many times that show comes up as a turning point, as a creative influence, as something many people remember more fondly than they did when it was being performed live. Same with the Bridgemen. When they first came out they were every bit.. if not more... unconventional than was the Star of 93, and got a lot of flack in some quarters. The Bridgemen became a HUGE creative influence however on the DCI activity and this year that creative influence manifested itself with the Jersey Surf show. The 2012 Jersey Surf show was well received by most fans nationwide ( older and newer alike ) and without recriminations for doing something unconventional here in 2012 that was totally unlike any other Corps show in 2012. It demonstrates that new fans in the audience will indeed accept something totally new and unconventional for them in shows if presented in an appealing way to them. If nothing else, the very positive reception by national audiences of the unconventional show of the 2012 Jeresy Surf demonstrates our faith in national Drum Corps audiences ability to accept the unconventional in shows from Corps. Thats quite refreshing and comforting to know, imo. Edited August 31, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Hey, you and I are in violent agreement! Because that's all my point was, they won with a show that wasn't widely popular. Is that a problem? Only time will tell if that drives paying customers away. I don't know. i love when people take a few words out of an entire paragraph just to make their own point.....their show or no other will drive any one away , at least not more than usual that leave blaming it on an activity that may have passed them by just like many left when Bridgemen came on the scene with their change of look and style, just like when, the pit was formed, just like when DCI was formed, guards danced and didnt wear Boots and horn lines had more responsibilities than just playing...people have always left and always will A corps like Bridgemen couldnt be denied at all beacuse what they chose to do they did it at an extremely high level, antics and all and what BD ( and others ) have done popular or not was done at an extremely high level and also cant be denied.........quality is quality and thats the bottom line Edited August 31, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) i love when people take a few words out of an entire paragraph just to make their own point.....their show or no other will drive any one away , at least not more than usual that leave blaming it on an activity that may have passed them by just like many left when Bridgemen came on the scene with their change of look and style, just like when, the pit was formed, just like when DCI was formed, guards danced and didnt wear Boots and horn lines had more responsibilities than just playing...people have always left and always will Its one thing to lose fans, but its important to replace those fans with 2 or 3 more for every fan lost. Just like when we lose a Corps, its good to replace the lost Corps with a new Corps or two. One thing we can probaby all agree on here on DCP it seems to me is that this activity can not sustain itself unless it finds a way to grow a national, coast to coast, audience base over the coming years and decades. We start from that fundamental premise. Then we ask ouselves, which Corps show designers appear to be on board with an understanding of this fundamental premise... and which do not... and then we go from there. Edited August 31, 2012 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Its one thing to lose fans, but its important to replace those fans with 2 or 3 more for every fan lost. Just like when we lose a Corps, its good to replace the lost Corps with a new Corps or two. One thing we can probaby all agree on here on DCP it seems to me is that this activity can not sustain itself unless it finds a way to grow an audience base over the coming years and decades. We start from that fundamental premise. TAhen we ask ouselves, which Corps show designers appear to be on board with an understanding of this fundamental understanding of this dynamic. its very evident that the activity in general is not as popular as it was back in the 50s 60s and 70s but little in this world is. Most things from BITD have either diminished or completely have gone away. We've seen those discussions over and over here and all the reasons and also all the comparisons to other things widely popular BITD that are gone now. It serves a way different kid and audience. Before you can grow the audience one has to decided who that target audience is. Some say older because of the income to spend, some say younger because without them there is no activity, some say designers choices not being fan friendly, some say NEVER go back to the days of early DCI. So which is it? Being on staff for 2 DCI corps and 1 DCA corps I can tell you NOONE sits and says , lets do something to #### off the masses BUT some will say lets push this envelope and show its possible to think outside a box many in our activity get very comfortable in, lets look at things, even things from the past in a new and fresh way, lets test the water and explore how something old can maybe be fresh and new again to a much more sophisticated member than there might have been before, lets not settle for what some may have settled for in the past. Isnt that what corps like 27th, Bridgemen, Star, and many others did? that would be a YES! and when did Success become a dirty word. I remember the days when the world ELITE was something we all were striving to be and looked at those who were already there with admiration....................how soon we all forget Noone liked every corps BITD and usually hated the winner also...so in that respect nothing has changed except now many think they have to go to a show and love everyone...now how boring is that Also, one doesnt have to slam one corps they dont care for to justify the corps they do like....theres a pattern with that....I dont like every corps either but who ncares, I know I dont Edited August 31, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) its very evident that the activity in general is not as popular as it was back in the 50s 60s and 70s but little in this world is. I don't accept this premise at all. We all here could probably list dozens, if not hundreds. of activities we can think of that are popular today, yet have undergone few changes.. if at all... over the last 50 years. I listed a few of them last week, ie the fundamental instrumention and construct of the Opera as well as the Symphony Orchestra, both of which have undergone less instrumentation useage " changes " in the last 400 years, than DCI Drum Corps has undergone in the last 40 years. And this is just 2 examples of many that one can cite. Lots of groups have taken their audience base from say the 50's, 60's, 70's and increased that audience base exponentially over the following decades despite only minor, cosmetic changes in their fundamental construct. Certainly, a lot less changes than Drum Corps has undergone anyway in a similar timeframe. Edited August 31, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) I don't accept this premise at all. We could probbly list dozens, if not hundreds. of activities we can think of that are popular today, yet have undergone few changes..... if at all. I listed a few of them last week, ie the fundamental instrumention and construct of the Opera as well as the Symphony Orchestra, both of which have undergone less " changes " in the last 400 years, than DCI Drum Corps has undergone in the last 40 years. look at the #s its just not as popular as BITD , look at the lack of intrest in the community to be involved, look at kids who joined BITD just to do something...........boy scouts also are 1/2 the membership from the 70s............the opera has changed...maybe not alot BUT they also do what they do..you either like it or you dont as an audience member...some people hate it and never go ,.our activity isnt the same...kids pay to do this, not get paid, I was a member BITD and I dont see all that much change myself... it till fundamemtally what it was and is...sure theres things and show differences but so what. as far a audience and entertainment...was every corp BITD entertaining? ( subjective word ) no they werent...they were called hot dog corps and yes sometimes it was the winner I remember some pretty vicious things bitd out of many corps and audiences...lol...i can just imagine if the internet exsisted back then....lmao Edited August 31, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) I was a member BITD and I dont see all that much change myself. The kids are fundamentally the same, and what they get out of thew activity is the same. But there have been changes that are transformational ( some might argue.. radical ) in this activity the last 50 years unlike just about any other activity we can think of in terms of breadth, scope, degree, etc. Thats how I see it anyway. Those who like " change " have gotten a mountains worth of " change " from the Drum Corps activity the last 35 years or so. I can think of no other that has changed as much as Drum Corps in this similar timeframe. Has this transformational change increased the national audience base since DCI's inception ? DCP'ers are left to answer that question for themselves. If the answer to the question is " no "... and we accept the fact that the instrumentation utilized is better and the musicians on the whole are better, then why have we not grown ? DCP'ers are left with this question to ponder as well. Then we ask ouselves.. how can we " change " so that we attract larger audiences with our Drum Corps performance shows. I start with the premise here that we all do in fact WANT to grow a larger audience in the coming years and decades. If I'm wrong, and some on here, or in Corps staff don't want to grow an audience base in the coming years, just let me know that my assumption here is incorrect, and I'll be more than happy to modify this fundamentally understood premise that I have on the want and need to grown an audience base in the future. Edited August 31, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) The kids are fundamentally the same, and what they get out of thew activity is the same. But there have been changes that are transformational ( some might argue.. radical ) in this activity the last 50 years unlike just about any other activity we can think of in terms of breadth, scope, degree, etc. Thats how I see it anyway. Those who like " change " have gotten a mountains worth of " change " from the Drum Corps activity the last 35 years or so. I can think of no other that has changed as much as Drum Corps in this similar timeframe. Has this transformational change increased the national audience base since DCI's inception ? DCP'ers are left to answer that question for themselves. and thats whats so great Because ( and I can tell you 1st hand ) many feel there hasnt been alot of change at all and more, much more is needed....... I also think, you may be wrong about the kids...kids are nothing like we were, not at all, Ive taught a long time and kids now have much more available to them, look for many more things out of the activity than we did,look for many different things out of the activity as well as expect it from their corps and staff, even within the same corps. The kids I taught decades ago arent the same at all, hell the people I taught in DCA corps arent the same as a decade ago...well thats my experience in it all......are some things the same? the smile when succeeding or acceptance from staff, friends, etc etc sure Edited August 31, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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