GUARDLING Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." Quote attributed to Socrates by Plato. Elders have always complained about the younger generation. It may well form part of the dialogue in old vs. new styles of drum corps. But I don't believe this generation is fundamentally lazier, more easily distracted, etc etc. It's true that they have more distractions available, but many of those were thrown at them by adults wearing suits wondering how to make more money for their corporations. At various times I've been teaching drum corps, karate and even medieval sword and shield combat to kids, teens and young adults since the 1980's. My observation is that kids are not fundamentally different, but the society in which they find themselves has changed, and as always, they struggle to understand it. I do believe that the adults have become a little lazy in their efforts to find new ways to connect with those kids. Just my 2 cents on that. you 1st paragraph is correct my friend ,( although I do remember people saying that of us BITD also..lol...or at least where our generation was going ) . BUT as someone working with hudreds of these kids all summer I can tell you 1 thing is they may want alot of the same things we did as far as drum corps is concerned and want the attention.....alot of attention.......( so if thats what some believe to be fundamentally the ame then ok I'll bye that...if thats not someone elses experience traveling and dealing with kids all summer thats cool to.....for me it would be nice if kids were more like we were but hey it not 1975 anymore...we can fundamentally be the same as humans BUT everthing around u changes how we look, act and react to accomondate and able to live in the world we do.....ok DCA day , done with this one....maybe pop in later if i get bored..lol Edited September 1, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bchorn Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I totally understand what you are saying and thats fine BUT also top corps have always played to the sheets. I sit on the staff of 2 finalist' as well as a DCA corp and sheets always come up come up in initial meetings. Now Im not say so called entertainment doesnt come up. What some arm chair judging does have is no restrictions of NOT having a show style opinion....a Judge ( and yes I have been one ) does not judge the type of show or try to re write a show , a judge judges what a corps decided to do and have they achieved it in excellence as well as conveying their message, not if they liked it or not . Look at another widely popular corps this year and how style and theme wise they changed alot from 2011, worked the sheets as well as maybe followed cadets style a bit because maybe it worked for them...JMO as hard as it may be to believe BITD i was on staff and a very young staff member learning and was with a very controversial corps which entertainment and the audience was top concern SHEETS, even back then were talked about and how those things needed to be counted in beacuse although we were in it to entertain we were also in it to be successful and were ! Well, I'm not so sure about Top Corps ALWAYS playing to the sheets but I will say this. I have been watching Drum Corps for 25 years since I was in high school and never have I been as disinterested in the DCI World Champion as I have been the last 4 times when the Blue Devils won. I'm not saying my years of experience makes me a better fan. I'm just pointing it out to show that the Blue Devils are approaching their show design differently from others. If it was just me, then I wouldn't be posting like I have. But when I dig around on drum corp sites, I notice similiar discontent by others. I notice things like BDs getting 7th in the fan vote while the judges place them 3rd. I notice things like only 10% of the audience stays behind for this year's champion versus 50% for last year's champion. Or when I'm walking out of the stadium on finals night all i hear are fans shouting B#######! All these little things tell me I'm not alone in my discontent with the BDs. And here's the really sad part, I WANT to like the Blue Devils. I am a bandwagon fan who has no strong allegiance to any corp. All they have to do is make an entertaining show like Cadets 2011 or Phantom 2008 (the last two non-BD champions) and then I'm on the bandwagon. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Well, I'm not so sure about Top Corps ALWAYS playing to the sheets but I will say this. I have been watching Drum Corps for 25 years since I was in high school and never have I been as disinterested in the DCI World Champion as I have been the last 4 times when the Blue Devils won. I'm not saying my years of experience makes me a better fan. I'm just pointing it out to show that the Blue Devils are approaching their show design differently from others. If it was just me, then I wouldn't be posting like I have. But when I dig around on drum corp sites, I notice similiar discontent by others. I notice things like BDs getting 7th in the fan vote while the judges place them 3rd. I notice things like only 10% of the audience stays behind for this year's champion versus 50% for last year's champion. Or when I'm walking out of the stadium on finals night all i hear are fans shouting B#######! All these little things tell me I'm not alone in my discontent with the BDs. And here's the really sad part, I WANT to like the Blue Devils. I am a bandwagon fan who has no strong allegiance to any corp. All they have to do is make an entertaining show like Cadets 2011 or Phantom 2008 (the last two non-BD champions) and then I'm on the bandwagon. the dislike of a winner, especially multiple has always been part of it. I remember audience doing the same of others BITD. change doent sit well with many drum corps people...never has even back in the 70s.......being different you are right, they are in their approach but I say so what? do we want 12 of the same? I know I dont...fans have always found negitivity throughout the years, especially if it was a corp that THEY think should have won and didnt..its classic and predictable..Audience rarely are of the same opinion as the winner .does it happen....usually when people dont care who wins as long as its someone else. as far as top 5 and sheets I can tell you working the sheets goes far beyond the top 5. This I do know 1st hand. I am sorry you have been disinterested in drum corps except for a few shows in the past several years and not sure what to tell you about that other than this has happened to folks also even back when dci was formed. I think there is enough diversity for you to enjoy some but if its the WINNER you are talking about all I can say is what has been told to us as members, as we have told kids. we cant control the outcome but can control our own job. So get out of it what you can and do you best and enjoy.many , especaially here say its not about scores , then what difference does it make and it shouldnt diminish the experience Edited September 1, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bchorn Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) the dislike of a winner, especially multiple has always been part of it. I remember audience doing the same of others BITD. change doent sit well with many drum corps people...never has even back in the 70s.......being different you are right, they are in their approach but I say so what? do we want 12 of the same? I know I dont...fans have always found negitivity throughout the years, especially if it was a corp that THEY think should have won and didnt..its classic and predictable..Audience rarely are of the same opinion as the winner .does it happen....usually when people dont care who wins as long as its someone else. as far as top 5 and sheets I can tell you working the sheets goes far beyond the top 5. This I do know 1st hand. I am sorry you have been disinterested in drum corps except for a few shows in the past several years and not sure what to tell you about that other than this has happened to folks also even back when dci was formed. I think there is enough diversity for you to enjoy some but if its the WINNER you are talking about all I can say is what has been told to us as members, as we have told kids. we cant control the outcome but can control our own job. So get out of it what you can and do you best and enjoy.many , especaially here say its not about scores , then what difference does it make and it shouldnt diminish the experience This is more than just a dislike of ONE winner. This is dislike of MULTIPLE winners by one corp over a short period of time. In my 25 years of watching drum corp, this has never happened before. Yes, I may have not liked a winner here or there but rarely did I dislike the same top 5 corp year after year. So don't try to spin this as a "people have always disliked the winner since the dawn of time" because I have never experienced this before. So please, don't try to convince me otherwise. Edited September 2, 2012 by bchorn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) This is more than just a dislike of ONE winner. This is dislike of MULTIPLE winners by one corp over a short period of time. In my 25 years of watching drum corp, this has never happened before. Yes, I may have not liked a winner here or there but rarely did I dislike the same top 5 corp year after year. So don't try to spin this as a "people have always disliked the winner since the dawn of time" because I have never experienced this before. So please, don't try to convince me otherwise. not trying to tell you what to like or dislike...why would I care?( or why would you care what I like or teach) Spin it yourelf however you want. If 1 corps ruins it for you then maybe you havent learned a thing in your 25 years.if its more than one then if you are in a position to change a corps , have at it....if not then OH WELL.Dont watch them, what can I tell ya...there may be many who feel like you just as ther are many who would disagree...does it really matter that much?..So you dont like a theme of a corps..big deal ...watch someone else and just to get back on topic...if I like BD or not in recent years is not the point..what is the point is them doing what they have chose to do, open doors for others to not be confined to some idea that things have to be done a certain way and that one can explore and be creative and true to themselves. Boundries broken, enveloped pushed..just what many did BITD so that we can have drum corps today Edited September 2, 2012 by GUARDLING 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bchorn Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 not trying to tell you what to like or dislike...why would I care?( or why would you care what I like or teach) Spin it yourelf however you want. If 1 corps ruins it for you then maybe you havent learned a thing in your 25 years.if its more than one then if you are in a position to change a corps , have at it....if not then OH WELL.Dont watch them, what can I tell ya...there may be many who feel like you just as ther are many who would disagree...does it really matter that much?..So you dont like a theme of a corps..big deal ...watch someone else and just to get back on topic...if I like BD or not in recent years is not the point..what is the point is them doing what they have chose to do, open doors for others to not be confined to some idea that things have to be done a certain way and that one can explore and be creative and true to themselves. Boundries broken, enveloped pushed..just what many did BITD so that we can have drum corps today But it's not just me. I've read many other people say the same thing about Blue Devils regarding the last 6-8 year period. Again, if it was just me or few people here or there, then I wouldn't be saying ANYTHING. But I'm hearing this same discontent from a large contingent of people. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 This is more than just a dislike of ONE winner. This is dislike of MULTIPLE winners by one corp over a short period of time. In my 25 years of watching drum corp, this has never happened before. Yes, I may have not liked a winner here or there but rarely did I dislike the same top 5 corp year after year. So don't try to spin this as a "people have always disliked the winner since the dawn of time" because I have never experienced this before. So please, don't try to convince me otherwise. I agree that this (your view) is not about dislike of ONE winner....but it is most assuredly about winning. Your view is much like many on DCP that look to the past for their drum corps entertainment experience. And if you look at the field this year there are many, many examples of traditional drum corps throughout their productions. Putting aside some of the new allowable innovations (mic'd solos, voice over and electronics in general, etc), the field was mostly traditional (as I'm sure you would define it). BUT the winner wasn't......so what? Does that define the experience for you....the winner? I'm not about to defend BD and their design trend, I just enjoy it all and accept the differences and uniqueness of each corps. And thank God that someone is doing something different. Drum corps is healthy and in hard economic times DCI did pretty #### good this year. So, any thought that BD's 4 out 6 titles in as many years is some kind of turn off is myth. IMO, it comes down to this: You (and many others) wanted the judges to validate your taste and they didn't. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) But it's not just me. I've read many other people say the same thing about Blue Devils regarding the last 6-8 year period. Again, if it was just me or few people here or there, then I wouldn't be saying ANYTHING. But I'm hearing this same discontent from a large contingent of people. So its not just you....what does that mean? does it make it true?, right..maybe, maybe not..news groups are a very small part of the mass . I can say I heard the opposite? Same stuff was said about star BITD and now revered for their effort to change. Many hated them..probably alot of the same who love them now..................Obviously it is about winning to you and I could ask who did you think should have won but it really doesnt matter at all....and if it isnt then as I said theres others to watch , 1 corps shouldnt make a difference. We all dont have to like everyone Edited September 2, 2012 by GUARDLING 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) do we want 12 of the same? I know I dont. I 've never met anyone that wants all Drum Corps to look and sound "the same". So I'm not getting your point. We've never, ever had that before in Drum Corps in any era, so I wouldn't sweat it if I was you that you'll meet somebody that'll want all the Corps, as this activity moves forward, to look and sound "the same". Fear not, as its not going to happen. It never has before. And won't in the future, imo. Edited September 2, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) I 've never met anyone that wants all Drum Corps to look and sound "the same". So I'm not getting your point. We've never, ever had that before in Drum Corps in any era, so I wouldn't sweat it if I was you that you'll meet somebody that'll want all the Corps, as this activity moves forward, to look and sound "the same". Fear not, as its not going to happen. It never has before. And won't in the future, imo. the post for for the other poster BUT my point is that you donthave to like everyone ..so move on there's enough.of variety....so maybe we are saying the same thing Edited September 2, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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