perc2100 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 That was the core issue of the G7 controversy of 2010. For some values of $X, it's certainly true. It very much appears that the G7 is stuck in what biologists call a "Red Queen Race" - running faster and faster to stay in the same place. How much more did the 2012 Cadets cost (inclusive of everything: staff, food, travel, uniforms, props, instruments, ...) compared to 2002? 1992? 1982? Yet in all of those years they accomplished much the same thing: prepared a field show of suitable quality to contend for the DCI championship and took it on a national tour. Sure, they could add lights, fog, woodwinds, lasers, dancing bears, trampolines, and a partridge in a pear tree. But unless it unlocks new revenue, it's just driving up the costs of entering the same competition with the same players year after year. I wonder what any of the top groups see as the end game here? Interesting observation. I wonder if their is an end game: isn't this essentially a lather/rinse/repeat activity? The end game is Finals night every year, I would guess. More business-savvy corps have figured out that they can earn more profit on the side by manufacturing their own products (System Blue, for example). Drum corps is juat as cyclical as education, where there isn't an organizational end game just the start/end of various cycles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cache_Money Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 that is a fair statement. What was the yearly operating expense of a Corps in 1972? Make it a top 12 to keep this easy. Good question. I don't know. And it would be interesting to see the breakdown of expenses and revenue sources and how it's changed over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 That is THE effect to design around, otherwise it's something different. Just like amplified singing/vocals Oh wait.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 The Why not is that the action of permitting something in DCI makes it implicitly compulsory the next year. Look at every rule change. They allowed it, and soon EVERY corps felt it was mandatory to do. No thanks! Just like amplified singing/vocals Oh wait.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkingqm Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) I would actually like to read about lighting so I set up a thread for this conversation HERE. THE NEW THREAD IS HERE. Thank you for starting another thread for purely financial discussions. It was interesting, and understandable, to see that a concern regarding lighting is money. Other concerns were issues with stadium lighting in outdoor venues, power supply (some stadiums not equiped/loud generators), and more. Kevin Powell and others had some interesting ideas on the possibilities, such as lights projected onto flags, or uniforms. Could the current black backdrop of indoor shows be made optionally white if a corp wanted to project color or pictures to complement their show? The concern that if one winning corp does it then everyone will HAVE to do it is a valid concern I think. I've heard narration done well in a place where narration seemed to fit so it was enhancing. I've also heard it done awkwardly in a place where it didn't seem to fit so it was distracting. Perhaps lighting could be enhancing when used appropriately. Edited August 21, 2012 by jkingqm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Good question. I don't know. And it would be interesting to see the breakdown of expenses and revenue sources and how it's changed over time. I ask because todays top 12 is about an average of $1000000. I am over simplifying because some are more, some less. That equals about $300000 in 1972. from there I could figure out the rate of growth over 40 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) If "staging" is the new mantra & direction of drum corp show design, is lighting the next big thing? From "A conversation with Michael Cesario" http://www.mastersmarchingarts.com/2011/index.php/85-2012-summer/112-a-conversation-with-michael-cesario I can't think of any drum corp show I've personally seen that incorporated any lighting effects. Has anyone? I've seen a high school band show at night where they had neon-glow stuff on their uniforms that looked really cool when they dimmed the stadium lights. Going back to the OP after all the strange turns this thread has GONE... The financial stuff has my head spinning but my head is now truly spinning with lighting ideas. NOT FOR DCI... WGI You could go crazy with lighting with WGI. Just with LCD Projectors, I wish I could spew all the ideas rattling in my head. So I am going to rattle off a few. You could project moving water (moving earth, leaves) on the floor from the front and the back. The guard would be walking on water, moving leaves, a moving earth. SAME IDEA... a fast moving road and a slow moving guard. or moving through a river Transparent screens. Project from the back. WHATEVER YOU CAN IMAGINE. Transparent screens. Project from the front. Silhouette guard behind. Color washing - just projecting colors onto the guard. Video Projection. You could actually place a guard into different places (different times/history) within a show. Video Projection - You could instantly double the size of your guard. You could have "virtual" partners on screen dancing with a real person. Lava Lamps are always cool. Project live video - Half the floor live - the other half projected live video reversed (from the live side). SAME with only one dancer - duplicate the dancer many times Same idea - project the audience as the back drop. There is always clouds... storms... city streets... traffic.. flying... roller coaster ride... a TRUE slow motion bus crash.. ART GALLERY... You could go freaky and use scientific footage - blood vessels. Some could do a koyaanisqatsi show with actual footage. a black and white - silent movie This would end up being cheaper for winter guard This is just me typing... there is much more rattling around. IT IS a perfect exploration tool for WGI. Edited August 22, 2012 by Kevin Powell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) With lighting It's literally 1 step away from a Blast! production. I'm waiting now for WGI to be on a stage! :) Isn't that basically the end game? To make these programs with as high a production value as Blast! Or Blue Man Group? Edited August 22, 2012 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mn trumpter guy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 That was the core issue of the G7 controversy of 2010. For some values of $X, it's certainly true. It very much appears that the G7 is stuck in what biologists call a "Red Queen Race" - running faster and faster to stay in the same place. How much more did the 2012 Cadets cost (inclusive of everything: staff, food, travel, uniforms, props, instruments, ...) compared to 2002? 1992? 1982? Yet in all of those years they accomplished much the same thing: prepared a field show of suitable quality to contend for the DCI championship and took it on a national tour. Sure, they could add lights, fog, woodwinds, lasers, dancing bears, trampolines, and a partridge in a pear tree. But unless it unlocks new revenue, it's just driving up the costs of entering the same competition with the same players year after year. I wonder what any of the top groups see as the end game here? I was wondering what the term for that was (I assumed there was one). It seems like what the G7 should be doing is finding ways to spend less... not make more. Then again, once someone has a toy it's hard for them to give it up. But think of how much money could be saved just by eliminating synthesized instruments, much less amplification altogether!? That includes not just equipment costs, but upkeep, transportation, and usually an extra staff to run it as well. And don't even get me started on props... there's a goldmine of savings in those things (usually, at least). I know some corps get them donated; what if the company had given them money instead of props, though? Interesting observation. I wonder if their is an end game: isn't this essentially a lather/rinse/repeat activity? The end game is Finals night every year, I would guess. More business-savvy corps have figured out that they can earn more profit on the side by manufacturing their own products (System Blue, for example). Drum corps is juat as cyclical as education, where there isn't an organizational end game just the start/end of various cycles. I doubt there is; most corps I've had insight in are thinking about the coming year, not years down the road. That seems like something DCI would want to have a vision for, and work with the individual corps to make it a reality. Does anyone know if DCI is looking into ways to save money as well as make more? Just curious; I certainly have no inside info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 With lighting It's literally 1 step away from a Blast! production. I'm waiting now for WGI to be on a stage! :) Isn't that basically the end game? To make these programs with as high a production value as Blast! Or Blue Man Group? Not possible on in a 60,000 seat football arena with 5 minutes to set up IMO. If you want to do a successful theater show, here's a free hint: do it in a theater. Generally WGI is a much better forum for a lot of experimentation and innovation. It's always indoors, in smaller venues, with smaller unit sizes, with much lower costs to participate. Something like the Rhythm X video on this thread worked great in WGI. But the cost & technical hurdles to scale it up mean that you're probably not going to see a similar effect from BD in Lucas Oil any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.