Kevin Powell Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 But rock stars earn their headliner status by how well they entertain. The headliner status of a drum corps is determined by DCI contest rankings. DCI makes the headlines for their corps, but a rock band makes their own headlines. The Rock world is also not just entertainment and talent. It is also , presentation and professionalism (on stage, in the studio, and so on). I know some extremely talented, entertaining rock stars that just cannot get past the presentation part of their craft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mn trumpter guy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The whole G7 scenario was premised upon making more money for the top corps by reducing payouts to the other corps - or reducing the number of other corps. So for some corps directors, they may believe there is an option for making more, therefore why spend less? I would argue that spending less is always more reliable than thinking you will make more; until a business plan has been proven, isn't it better to be cautious with your money? What may be happening at the G7 level is: the amount of crap (read: electronics, props, etc.) that they are buying right now IS with conservative spending, and they expect to be able to spend much more with all the new income from the G7 concept. In the end, I guess it comes down to the fact that the G7 corps truly only care about themselves, which I understand, but if their plan is to bankrupt other corps, then I think there is a problem with that. It's one thing to work on making yourself more fiscally stable, but you shouldn't be doing that at the expense of someone else. One of the things I thought was coolest about when I marched was the fact that even though me and my team were in vicious competition with groups around us, when we got out of uniform and off the field, we understood that we were all doing the same thing, and that was cool. Maybe the directors of DCI should have some kind of team-building retreat and stop trying to screw each other over. But now we're getting into the discussion Kevin and ciselyd are having. So you are basically saying, BD, SCV, Cadets and so on did not earn the success they have on their own. EVERYONE is working hard, some just had a better plan for success. Your logic is skewed. Yes, everyone is certainly working hard- I won't disagree with that. I'll also agree that the corps you list have earned the success they have attained. However, I would guess that performance order has an impact on who gets a higher score. I would also argue that by paying the winning corps more money, you enable them to win again, and give them an advantage of more money over the other cocrps. In THAT way, I think DCI absolutely influences who the 'headliners' are; if you win once and get paid more, it's easier to win again. As one of my friends says often: follow the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 So you are basically saying, BD, SCV, Cadets and so on did not earn the success they have on their own. When you state it like that, my first instinct is to say no. Those corps earned every bit of their competitive successes. But think about it - the overall success of DCI putting butts in seats has been a collective effort, and a large portion of the financial success of their member corps comes from that. Not one of these corps succeeds on their own. No drum corps can. And before someone mentions Star of Indiana, please remember that they transformed to something quite different from a drum corps in order to succeed on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Yes, everyone is certainly working hard- I won't disagree with that. I'll also agree that the corps you list have earned the success they have attained. However, I would guess that performance order has an impact on who gets a higher score. I would also argue that by paying the winning corps more money, you enable them to win again, and give them an advantage of more money over the other cocrps. In THAT way, I think DCI absolutely influences who the 'headliners' are; if you win once and get paid more, it's easier to win again. As one of my friends says often: follow the money. This whole thing is a natural progression that happens in all types of businesses. This same phenomenon is what created the "bell" companies that turned into a monopoly - then broken up, same with the banks with all the bank buy outs, then you have these mega monsters. Maybe, It is time that to look at it in a backwards way and the corps outside the G7 need the create something outside of DCI. Part ways and start their own thing. The G7 will evolve into something else and the other corps can make a go at a new collective. I am not sure what the answer is. I know that the money will follow the G7. It would also give the G7 the opportunity to go for-profit because it is smaller and more manageable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 One of the things I thought was coolest about when I marched was the fact that even though me and my team were in vicious competition with groups around us, when we got out of uniform and off the field, we understood that we were all doing the same thing, and that was cool. Maybe the directors of DCI should have some kind of team-building retreat and stop trying to screw each other over. What you describe (in the first sentence) is one important reason why DCI has been successful. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 This whole thing is a natural progression that happens in all types of businesses. This same phenomenon is what created the "bell" companies that turned into a monopoly - then broken up, same with the banks with all the bank buy outs, then you have these mega monsters. Maybe, It is time that to look at it in a backwards way and the corps outside the G7 need the create something outside of DCI. Part ways and start their own thing. The G7 will evolve into something else and the other corps can make a go at a new collective. I am not sure what the answer is. I know that the money will follow the G7. It would also give the G7 the opportunity to go for-profit because it is smaller and more manageable. I guess my answer is similar to yours. DCI should stick to the mission of developing a collective for the competitive drum corps format. Groups that want to evolve beyond that to include lighting, jet packs and intergalactic touring should move on. If any one of these evolving organizations can be a headliner on their own, as you said earlier, they will do fine. Or they can form a new collective, as you said in this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 When you state it like that, my first instinct is to say no. Those corps earned every bit of their competitive successes. But think about it - the overall success of DCI putting butts in seats has been a collective effort, and a large portion of the financial success of their member corps comes from that. Not one of these corps succeeds on their own. No drum corps can. And before someone mentions Star of Indiana, please remember that they transformed to something quite different from a drum corps in order to succeed on their own. Star succeeded in DCI - Despite DCI. They may have actually predicted the future. but I guess that is a different topic. It is natural to see things the way you see it. I understand. Butts in the seats is collective but some corps naturally draw more butts. It is that simple & That is all. That system of of pay is flawed for both sides. I have not heard a good solution. Paying everyone equal is not fair to the corps that brought in the most people - Paying a tiered system causes envy within the ranks and naturally propels the leader. BOTH are FLAWED. Financial success on the other hand is the individual corps and corps management. NOT DCI. That is where you are incorrect. These are just Examples: BD has played a great game of Corps Cash Management. Spririt of Atlanta has played a #### poor game of Corps Cash Management. BOTH started in the seventies a couple of years apart. They competed neck and neck at times even traded great staff. The Cash Game brought BD Through, Spirit has struggled with Cash - THIS IS NOT DCI. Individual Corps are responsible for their own house. Keep a clean house - OR Keep a Dirty house. It is not Communism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) Collectives fail unless EVERYONE is contributing their EQUAL share. We are all CORPS and Band people, we should be able to understand that everything must BALANCE. If One person is playing to loud - the rest of the corps cant just play up to that level. If there is someone not playing at all - IS THAT FAIR for the rest of the corps? If that one girl cant learn her routine but everyone else is tight and on the money - DO YOU DUMB IT DOWN FOR HER? This is what you are saying. Dumb it down for the girl who cant get it right. TEACH HER TO GET IT RIGHT. Edited August 22, 2012 by Kevin Powell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I guess my answer is similar to yours. DCI should stick to the mission of developing a collective for the competitive drum corps format. Groups that want to evolve beyond that to include lighting, jet packs and intergalactic touring should move on. If any one of these evolving organizations can be a headliner on their own, as you said earlier, they will do fine. Or they can form a new collective, as you said in this post. So what you are saying is that DCI should only consist of the lower end of the spectrum and that the corps that are the most successful should leave...IMO that leads to the end of DCI pretty quickly. Far better to keep those corps in the organization and capitalize on their name and their success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Going back to the OP after all the strange turns this thread has GONE... The financial stuff has my head spinning but my head is now truly spinning with lighting ideas. NOT FOR DCI... WGI You could go crazy with lighting with WGI. Just with LCD Projectors, I wish I could spew all the ideas rattling in my head. So I am going to rattle off a few. You could project moving water (moving earth, leaves) on the floor from the front and the back. The guard would be walking on water, moving leaves, a moving earth. SAME IDEA... a fast moving road and a slow moving guard. or moving through a river Transparent screens. Project from the back. WHATEVER YOU CAN IMAGINE. Transparent screens. Project from the front. Silhouette guard behind. Color washing - just projecting colors onto the guard. Video Projection. You could actually place a guard into different places (different times/history) within a show. Video Projection - You could instantly double the size of your guard. You could have "virtual" partners on screen dancing with a real person. Lava Lamps are always cool. Project live video - Half the floor live - the other half projected live video reversed (from the live side). SAME with only one dancer - duplicate the dancer many times Same idea - project the audience as the back drop. There is always clouds... storms... city streets... traffic.. flying... roller coaster ride... a TRUE slow motion bus crash.. ART GALLERY... You could go freaky and use scientific footage - blood vessels. Some could do a koyaanisqatsi show with actual footage. a black and white - silent movie This would end up being cheaper for winter guard This is just me typing... there is much more rattling around. IT IS a perfect exploration tool for WGI. Cool ideas! Bring back vistalite drums (haha) and put lights inside them...they could change colors as the show progresses, much like guards change silks to match the mood of the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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