Lighting - the next frontier of "staging"

[c mor]

Please excuse my ignorance. What is the origin and meaning of the term "G7" ?? I'm assuming 7 = top seven corps, but what does "G" mean?

[ShortAndFast]

Please excuse my ignorance. What is the origin and meaning of the term "G7" ?? I'm assuming 7 = top seven corps, but what does "G" mean?

In 2010 there was a proposal by 7 corps calling themselves the "G7" (current Top 8 except Boston) to change DCI's governance structure, revenue split, touring model, etc. to favor the 7. This was received poorly by the other corps, leading to the removal of the G7 directors from the DCI Board. The Tour of Champions in 2011/2012 is one aspect of the proposal that was somewhat put into practice.

If you search the archives around May 2010, you'll find the G7 presentation & tons of discussion about the fallout.

Edited August 24, 2012 by ShortAndFast

[3rd Glasgow BB]

Please excuse my ignorance. What is the origin and meaning of the term "G7" ?? I'm assuming 7 = top seven corps, but what does "G" mean?

It's a play on words from a well known political term.

The Worlds largest eight countries are called the G8. We often hear of the G8 summit in the news.

Fair to say the G7 are not the most popular group here on DCP.

Edited August 24, 2012 by 3rd Glasgow BB

[c mor]

Thank you both. I'll do some reading. Yes, I knew of it in the political realm, I wasn't sure about the DC world though. I thought maybe it was George's 7 or something..

[OldBones]

I just thought of something that would be great for Jersey Surf...

Projest the words to a song with the little bouncing ball. MORE Audience Particpation. Get the crowd to sing along. I think this maybe why we are all showing the love for Surf.

I thought of Surf when I first started reading this thread as well. NOT in the bouncing ball way but, in a fun way. (If they could afford it)

Now, is this a new rule going into effect in 2013 or is it just random thoughts of where DCI may be heading somewhere in the future? Even if it becomes a rule, does that mean EVERYONE must go out and buy? Why? Just to keep up with the Jones? Pardon my language, but, THAT IS JUST PLAIN STUPID.

Not to defend the "G7" but if you look at Finals for the last 10 years, the same 7 corps ARE the top 7. I think once, Madison made top 7 and SCV came in 8th. Also check the spreads between 7&8. Most of the time the is a 1.5-2.5 point spread. Is it because they have toys that the 8-12 corps (never mind the rest of us) don't have or is it because of show design, how and what they practice, corps management.

Flame away, I don't care.

I think this conversation about spending caps and make the "G7" spend less so some lesser corps can compete financially is mute. If you really look at it, outside the top 3-4 all the other corps are just entertainment. Just a fact. In the last 10 years, other than BD, Cadets & Cavies, only Phantom has won the coveted DCI World Championship. And they only did it once. Crown came somewhat close this year. Who else is really competing with the Jones?

I work with a smaller Open Class corps. Can we compete even if we had 20% of G7's funds? No. Simple truth. Doesn't mean we aren't working hard to raise the needed funds, recruit the kids, entertain and compete. It means, we have to figure out how to do all that better.

That's why they call it competition.

[Kevin Powell]

I thought of Surf when I first started reading this thread as well. NOT in the bouncing ball way but, in a fun way. (If they could afford it)

If it is a projector and screen - They can afford it. (this is a professional opinion) Crazy stage lighting and so on - They cannot afford it. They also do not have time for setup and so on.

Now, is this a new rule going into effect in 2013 or is it just random thoughts of where DCI may be heading somewhere in the future? Even if it becomes a rule, does that mean EVERYONE must go out and buy? Why? Just to keep up with the Jones? Pardon my language, but, THAT IS JUST PLAIN STUPID.

This whole thread is random thoughts and conjecture. No Rules in place for it (I am not sure if there are rules against it)

Playing follow the leader, you are correct - "Just Plain Stupid". Corps are not required by rules to have electronics and amps but for some reason they are the tail wagging the dog.

Not to defend the "G7" but if you look at Finals for the last 10 years, the same 7 corps ARE the top 7. I think once, Madison made top 7 and SCV came in 8th. Also check the spreads between 7&8. Most of the time the is a 1.5-2.5 point spread. Is it because they have toys that the 8-12 corps (never mind the rest of us) don't have or is it because of show design, how and what they practice, corps management.

Flame away, I don't care.

You are on fire... Had to flame you some how.

I think this conversation about spending caps and make the "G7" spend less so some lesser corps can compete financially is mute. If you really look at it, outside the top 3-4 all the other corps are just entertainment. Just a fact. In the last 10 years, other than BD, Cadets & Cavies, only Phantom has won the coveted DCI World Championship. And they only did it once. Crown came somewhat close this year. Who else is really competing with the Jones?

I work with a smaller Open Class corps. Can we compete even if we had 20% of G7's funds? No. Simple truth. Doesn't mean we aren't working hard to raise the needed funds, recruit the kids, entertain and compete. It means, we have to figure out how to do all that better.

I would add Crown to that new "Jones" family. I honestly do not think it is that these corps are paying "MORE" for the shows. They can maybe afford new toys that others cannot because that is small change due to economy of scale. By the financial statements they are not spending more on their shows. They have built strong organizations that feed recruitment and there is more money spent there. How can you cap that type of spending. People are looking at the "ORGANIZATION" numbers when they see that YEA, RD and SCV budget numbers and thinking that is all "SHOW". There is extra cost in running Bingo, West Coast tour cost, 3 corps, 2 winterguards, A wind symphony, and more...

That's why they call it competition.

Building organizations is part of the game.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Kevin Powell

[OldBones]

If it is a projector and screen - They can afford it. (this is a professional opinion) Crazy stage lighting and so on - They cannot afford it. They also do not have time for setup and so on.

This whole thread is random thoughts and conjecture. No Rules in place for it (I am not sure if there are rules against it)

Playing follow the leader, you are correct - "Just Plain Stupid". Corps are not required by rules to have electronics and amps but for some reason they are the tail wagging the dog.

You are on fire... Had to flame you some how.

I would add Crown to that new "Jones" family. I honestly do not think it is that these corps are paying "MORE" for the shows. They can maybe afford new toys that others cannot because that is small change due to economy of scale. By the financial statements they are not spending more on their shows. They have built strong organizations that feed recruitment and there is more money spent there. How can you cap that type of spending. People are looking at the "ORGANIZATION" numbers when they see that YEA, RD and SCV budget numbers and thinking that is all "SHOW". There is extra cost in running Bingo, West Coast tour cost, 3 corps, 2 winterguards, A wind symphony, and more...

Building organizations is part of the game.

Thank you Kevin. Exactly my points. I posted the same thoughts earlier and I was told I don't get it.

Thats why I ranted on.

I would love to see more corps become competitive. Its boring seeing the same 2-3 corps win every year (not that they don't deserve to win because they do) I may not be a fan of BD's show this year, but they executed the hell out of it. I enjoy that as much as watching Surf entertain like they did this year.

To me a Drum Corps show is about being entertained and seeing the results of all the work the kids put into their shows. This year I marveled at watching Crown play and move like they did as much as watching Surf. I also liked Raiders show (who did a completely different kind of show on a painted tarp). That's why I go and spend my money.

Do I wander the parking lots, yes. I do get into the shows before they start because I can watch parking lot videos anytime.

[Kevin Powell]

Thank you Kevin. Exactly my points. I posted the same thoughts earlier and I was told I don't get it.

Thats why I ranted on.

I would love to see more corps become competitive. Its boring seeing the same 2-3 corps win every year (not that they don't deserve to win because they do) I may not be a fan of BD's show this year, but they executed the hell out of it. I enjoy that as much as watching Surf entertain like they did this year.

To me a Drum Corps show is about being entertained and seeing the results of all the work the kids put into their shows. This year I marveled at watching Crown play and move like they did as much as watching Surf. I also liked Raiders show (who did a completely different kind of show on a painted tarp). That's why I go and spend my money.

Do I wander the parking lots, yes. I do get into the shows before they start because I can watch parking lot videos anytime.

People also get this word "entertaining" confused. Not all entertainment is crazy slapstick or wild jazz, weird effects, and craziness we've never seen before. Crowns show did have some extremely entertaining moments, my favorite being the fanfare at the beginning. It was entertaining because it was left intact and beautifully done - Straight forward and very well executed.

[JamMan]

Has anyone realized the reason BD, Cavaliers, Phantom Regiment, Cadets, etc do so well every year is because of design and their ability to not have to rewrite huge sections of the show? Look at BD, for example. What changes between early June and finals? They just get cleaner. What about Cadets? When they win, it's mostly with a show that saw very little added or taken out.

Designers: FIGURE IT OUT IN THE OFF-SEASON. If your corps isn't very technical, DON'T TRY TO RE-INVENT DRUM CORPS! One of the biggest examples I can think off was 7th Regiment in either 2010 or 2011. They tried to create a show that's the opposite of what's expected in a drum corps show. Then they played Radiohead and that's it. Something to turn the activity on its head and they chose material that's played by tens to hundreds of marching bands a year. GE scores suffered, plus the drum book was over-written. You ended up with a show that didn't engage the audience and the kids couldn't perform to the best of their abilities. And it's obviously not just them. You see Glassmen, Crown, Blue Knights, Academy, Blue Stars, etc try this every year or two. Just step back, figure out what your staff knows how to do, then push it past that only a little bit. The result is growth in the kids and the organization instead of just a shot in the dark.

[Rusty]

And we wonder what is imploding the activity. Come on folks... Changeable Uniforms every year for 150 performers to match year to year show concept designs; Lighting effects; Projections on screens; Electronics, Amplification; secondary truck/trailer to transport this stuff;... and the money to facilitate all of this design comes from where? The performer dues? Grants? Sugar-Daddy Donations? Ticket sales? What the ****!!!! When will this, "We have to procure more and more and more and more and more money to pay for increased design demand madness" stop!!!!! How about this for a solution to increasing the overwhelming costs: if a designer wants a projection system and lighting effects then make the designer himself/herself pay for the equipment, insurance, and transportation of the equipment or change the design concept!!!!

Oh, come on. Corps are already paying a fortune for the pit and new uniforms every third year. Where's your sense of adventure? /sarcasm