For Dinosaurs Only

[Piper]

To Drum Corps kids today anyone over the age of 25 is a dinosaur. When they see or hear us they think that they're in jurassic park.

[KAW]

It's all about opinions just because something has evolved into something you don't really agree with, doesn't mean it's evolved for the worse.

I suspect there are a lot of vets from the 1960s who look upon 1980s Drum Corps the same way some who marched on the 1980s look upon todays Drum Corps.

You evolve or you die, it applies to all walks of life including Drum Corps.

This is very true, and it's also aligned with my belief that our memories of how things used to be are usually far better than they actually were. There's nothing wrong with remembering the best of times, but too often we let it fog our mind with "back in the day" thinking.

[Spartans87]

Try this.....Take away all forms of communication from all judges for the entire season. No laptop, no cell phone, no homephone. Keep them sequestered. Take them to their contest, hand them their materials and let them judge by what they see and hear on that night. No reference from past contests to look at and let them work the boxes they way they were intended. Give a corps a score BASED on the reference criteria and have their worksheets taken from them after each corps so they can't remember what they gave a corps. Do this all season long. Would we see shifts and maybe better competitions throughout the year?

I know this could never happen but wouldn't this be more of a fair way to judge a contest? Now for all you more intelligent than I people...slam away!

Not sure if this is doable, but I would take this idea over having fans participate in the outcome any day. And I believe this is the way the judging system SHOULD work. Judge what you see in front of you. No reference to past shows should be allowed.

Also someone mentioned earlier that they would like to see the judging panels shaken up a bit - a judge from a different side of the entertainment world, marching band circuit, etc. I bet you will find that a lot of the judges in DCI are sanctioned to judge in Marching Band circuits. They may not participate much, but they can and probably do in some way, so I would throw that one out.

Lots of ideas out there. Maybe some day we will find the compromise that makes the activity better in some way.

[GUARDLING]

if you rely heavily or even solely on one third, that's not truly effective.

yet it gets rewarded.

it all just depends how the others faired in the 3 areas.......who gets more marbles for what wins the game..i think we can take the top 3 or 4 corps and IMO none will even out on all 3 areas....YES it can happen, unless you are talking drastic differences from one sub area of the triad to another

[GUARDLING]

well, let's break down BD. the whole dada thing wasn't exactly emotionally engaging unless you're into dadaism. nothing was familiar about it to the average fan. When I see a hobby horse, I think of a small kids toy, not a movement of elitist artists.

and some shows....(not saying one way or another about BD this year) BUT many times in the past some corps and shows are so good that who cares whats its about...this has happened often through the years and this is also a tribute to great writing and great training of the members.Yes its very possible..........now if somme thinks or doesnt think this years winner falls into this is up for debate ( as usual ) and an opinion......pssttttt...lol..i also remember a time when the word ELITE was a great thing in this activity and people admired and looked up to those considered ELITE...just a statement...im not going back to the who did what to who and whos the blame game...lol

Edited September 6, 2012 by GUARDLING

[BRASSO]

To Drum Corps kids today anyone over the age of 25 is a dinosaur. When they see or hear us they think that they're in jurassic park.

Lets hope none of them then use an outhouse bathroom toilet, or take a wrong road turn at the wheel of their car in rainy downpour weather in the park. That could make for an unpleasant sight.

Edited September 6, 2012 by BRASSO

[Grandpa]

To Drum Corps kids today anyone over the age of 25 is a dinosaur. When they see or hear us they think that they're in jurassic park.

Wow - this makes me a double-dino.

Plus 7.....

RAWWWRRRR

[actucker]

Well, I see you think highly enough of yourself to have an opinion on it too.

Crown going from third to first was a significant change. How many shows later in the season saw a move like that?

Remember, DCI also withheld scores on opening weekend in 2011, and there was a corps moving from first to fourth in those two shows.

Actually no. I don't have an opinion on whether one corps was better one night in several captions over another. I'm not qualified to make that call. I might be able to make that distinction in one caption. Not all of them. Neither is an individual judge. That's why they judge one caption. So you telling me that you think that one corps should have placed better than another on a given night based on one read, when that overall placement would have been effected by several captions is either egomania, or a flat out lie in an attempt to support your argument.

Hard to Crown's movement that significant when the corps that was in second for the first show was not present the next night. Who knows where Phantom would have fit in. That same perceived volatility exists every season, whether they can see the scores from the previous night or not. Even if I did think you had a point, 4 total shows isn't exactly a sample size that proves any kind of trend. You're talking about one somewhat unexpected move within those 4 shows. Not convincing at all.

Drum corps is built around the idea of consistency. Consistency of placement is not to be unexpected throughout the year. There is a ton of volatility in the captions, as evidenced by this year's results. When there are captions that are close, those captions tend to move around a lot. When there are captions where there's a clear winner from the start (brass + crown), that happens too. However it takes a lot of caption movement to flip two corps from the night before. One person's judgement is not enough to make that call.

The bottom line is, until a lower placing corps gets it together, we're going to continue to get "stagnant" placement. I'm sorry that you can't deal with that, but blaming it on the judges is simply a cop out.

[actucker]

well, let's break down BD. the whole dada thing wasn't exactly emotionally engaging unless you're into dadaism. nothing was familiar about it to the average fan. When I see a hobby horse, I think of a small kids toy, not a movement of elitist artists.

And we're back to "BD shouldn't have won".

Again, you're getting back into a pretty narrow minded concept of what is effective. BD was incredibly effective from an intellectual point of view. It literally made me go home and do research on Dada, because I wanted to understand what they were doing better. The hobby horses may not have been an esthetic you liked, but you can't sit there and tell me that they weren't effective. We're sitting here talking about them aren't we? Nobody on this board could hear the words hobby horse, or hula hoop and not think of that show. That's aesthetic effect. And again, maybe the show wasn't goose bump emotional, but it certainly contained plenty of emotional content, ranging from confusion to wonder to anger to laughter etc. The issue I see from an emotional effect standpoint is that a lot of the emotional effect was tied up in the intellectual side of the show. The more you understood, the more emotion you got from it. So if you didn't get, or weren't interested in the intellectual side of the show, it didn't seem effective.

[Plan9]

well, let's break down BD. the whole dada thing wasn't exactly emotionally engaging unless you're into dadaism. nothing was familiar about it to the average fan. When I see a hobby horse, I think of a small kids toy, not a movement of elitist artists.

It depends on how you define "emotional"...there are all kinds of emotions: memory/reflective emotions, inspirational/uplifting emotions, spiritual emotions, etc. yet, if you go to a Cirque show, you will experience wonder and surprise and even some amazement, you'll smile, ooh and ahh and sometimes simply shake your head. All the time, there may be no definitive emotion (or even a direction) but your might experience sheer visual engagement, stimulated by their always odd and perfectly matched soundtracks.

So...........is it is a requirement to be emotionally engaged?....not for me! Is it a requirement to satisfy some retro connection to DC past?....not for me! Is there some requirement to link the music and visual in a manner easily recognized and memorable?.....not for me! Perhaps for you. Oh, and BTW....when you get around to it, please introduce me to that "average fan" of which you speak, I sure as hell hope he doesn't wear madras shorts, street shoes with black socks and a pork pie hat!

Edited September 6, 2012 by Plan9