DCA I&E Mini Corps judging

[Jeff Ream]

Harrisburg ran the mini show up until their next to last show. Larry brought the mini's in to draw more people for the Sat. Night show and that couldn't save it. Should I be like you and say that nobody would pay to see "Alumni Corps"? Fact of the matter is, Drum Corps in general does not draw like it use to and most people can't afford to go see it. With the line-up that Larry use to put out year in and year out and the Show still couldn't survive....doesn't that tell you anything? Do you think the "Alumni Spectacular" would even exist if it were not sandwiched between the Semi's and the Finals of Championship weekend? My point is, that the majority of people would not pay to see any type of Drum Corps, not just Mini's

the Saturday night show would have died with or without the minis, and to be honest, the minis didnt draw all that great.

no offense, but alumni corps have far more of a drawing because of the historical ties.

and preaching to me about Serenade is laughable man. I was at every one, in the stands or on stage. I know so much about how that event ran.......the audience base was getting older. no competing corps meant younger fans weren't coming. expenses got crazy, and let's face it, with Five Star, if it wasn't a first class facility, they weren't going to run it. They tried once with the outdoor show. Plus....except for Dan, the surviving Stars aren't kids any more.

Other alumni shows do ok, and they aren't sandwiched between prelims and finals.

I think mini corps has it's place. I think some of you are way too hung up on the scores and want your event to be the attraction of the weekend, and you're not and won't be. The weekend is all about DCA Championships.

[captcastile]

If I were one of the judges, or the one who assigned them, this would be a tough pill for me to swallow.

Which "CORPS" (plural) got their butt handed to them? Speaking in general for all for the concerns and complaints of the few is not a fair approach.

Mass Brass seems to have a problem and a few members seem to believe that the judges thought they "sucked" or that they were underscored.

So what good is a tape? Truly.

Would taped comments change the outcome or become more fodder for those who already have their mind made up on the situation? My opinion is that a tape supporting their comments ("great job", "aggressive charts" and score/placement) would only be the centerpiece for additional scrutiny and derision if the number on the paper didnt match the member's opinion of themselves - "oh that's BULLSHTI!...this guy doesnt have a CLUE!" - and so forth.

The original post calls out the judges as unaccountable, disinterested, disrespectful, incompetent and with an axe to grind. If only they made tapes, then we could "understand" why they were all these things? Please.

I dont see that as a roundtable conversation with mutual respect and nodding heads among cool and collected persons. Especially if it STARTS by ascribing these attributes to the adjudicators and leaving them in a position to either prove a negative or attempt to sway people whose mind is already made up.

I see the comments and the score and the audience response as plenty of feedback. I also see the feedback from this group as something to be reckoned with as well.

This isnt a plea for understanding. It's sour grapes, just like JAM said. Why didnt we win? Or place higher? "Our scores"...blah blah blah. If between now and DCA 2013 (350 days) you cant get some feedback, through DCA or sending a note to Rich or Bob, then shame on you. I dont know if i was just called a bunch of names in public if I'd be too interested in helping out. Regardless, this has been fermenting over years of "declining scores" so maybe that call or email should have been made long ago.

We've been down this road before. And if the contest part has taken the place of the fun to the point where this kind of negativity surrounds it, it's time to go back down the road towards fun. If that's "not worth the trouble" then that is a decision each of the groups can make on their own.

Someone thinks they "deserved better." I think the judges who volunteered their time and expertise deserved better than to be told to "clean up their act and show a little respect".

It's mini-corps, for God sake....a fun event among family and friends. If this is really what it's come down to then maybe we give in to the weight of negativity and decide not to have it at all.

Sour grapes my ###...not once was there a mention of our placement or our score, it is what it is. How dare we ask the Judges (paid Judges not volunteers)to give us more of an assessment of our show than a couple of comments scratched on a sheet of paper. I'd bet the store that you and some of the others that are ripping us aren't even involved in the mini's, because if you were, you would know exactly what I'm talking about. Every Mini out there, is there to have fun and put on the best show possible for the crowd, they all work hard, very hard to entertain the crowd, which I think we do a good job at. For some one like you to sit back and rip us for wanting to get better is a complete joke!

While we're at it, I'd like to thank you for the private e-mail you sent to me, telling me to back off, to handle it differently...I did..and then you go off and take over the whole thread with YOUR opinions and rip anyone who doesn't agree...a true class act

[wishbonecav]

The OP was ALL ABOUT SCORES.

Not once was there a mention of our placement or our score. Really. (see below)

You told the 25 year director of a DCA member corps to "clean his ears out" and that he had no clue. he asked for was civility and pointed the conversation in the right direction.

I sure did ask you in a PM to take a deep breath....and you decided to chime in again, game on.

Regardless... the name of the judges and their email address / phone number is available. Ask them yourself. the live version of XXX and XXXX is way above a tape in terms of feedback and a few pointers....and for more than "1 minute or so".

Its a solution, not a pound of flesh. I'm not sure which the OP would rather have.

And if its so much an effort "for the crowd", as mentioned in the last post, then SCORES shouldnt really matter anyway.

Is it not time to hold the Mini Corps judges accountable for their scores? Why are they not taped with info that we can use for next year? The Mass Brass scoresheets said, "great job", "aggressive charts" ect...and oh yeh, here's your score "you suck" (kinda refers to placement). What's that all about? Not a shred of information that could help us for next year...nothing. Our scores have been declining the last couple of years and we're not sure why and have been giving "0" feedback from the judges. If the judges don't want to be there or it is a major incovenience for them, then maybe DCA should find people that do want to be there. How long would it take to comment or give us feedback, 1 minute or so.....considering the amount of time and effort everyone puts into their shows, I don't think that's too much to ask. Time for a change, time for the judges to show a little respect for the performers that have worked hard all year for this show. All the Mini Corps deserve better! People were asking "where have all the Mini Corps gone?" simple.....Corps were getting their ##### handed to them and no one told them why, add that to the time and expense it takes to get on the field or stage and there's your answer, it's not worth the trouble. Unless the Judges can clean up their act and show a little respect for the Corps that are competing, the numbers will only get worse.

Edited September 13, 2012 by wishbonecav

[Jeff Ream]

Joey wins

[TomPeashey]

Joey wins

Considering Joey's national origins and bloodlines... (think last names ending in vowels) Joey ALWAYS wins or there may be horseheads in bed... but honestly? His sister Dina is even tougher... she's a snare drummer...

[Gary Matczak]

And if its so much an effort "for the crowd", as mentioned in the last post, then SCORES shouldnt really matter anyway.

so wait,...........can't this be said for all corps?,..............field, junior, senior,..............kinda like when my kids were little and played soccer, they didn't keep score, why have a goalie, right?

this whole discussion is blown out of proportion, this same discussion has taken place years ago,...............MCA was started in a suggested effort to bring the discussion civillly forward, we met over the course of several years, sent Ponzo and DA to DCA meetings as our reps, only to be carelessly disregarded..............as Jeff and others have said, I know that the weekend is all about prelims and finals, and the mini corps, I&E, alumni, etc. is just a placated effort to get people to town and buy tickets to those events,..........many have said that drum corps is a dying artform, all of this is another way to help kill it off by shouting people down who are trying to partitpate in what is/was a facet of it,.............

[Donny Drum Corps]

I watched the videos from DCA. I am OK with how it came out. I also did, and have at every almost DCA, talked to judges after the fact during some point of the weekend. In fact I am judging with one them this weekend.

With no disprespect to the OP intended, I do not want them to tell me how to write my show in order to place higher. With no disrespect to the judges, I am not sure they can do that without understanding the dynamics of the group. Talent level, rehearsal techinque and frequency, and overall capabilities need to be considered in this factor. We know our groups much better than they ever could.

That being said, tapes could allow us to hear the judges reactions at the time they are judging, and vindicate their score. We tried to get this and DCA said no. I guess the answer is no until DCA decides that it is yes.

It has been said over and over on this thread and many other places...mini corps changed seven years ago. It is no longer a competition for first place. Even our best efforts will continue to be futile in this regard. There, I said it.

Donny

Not sure everyone saw this. It was edited after the fact. Tapes or not, we have less groups coming for some reason. Getting rights and paying fees has changed the game significantly. Knowing that you are competing for second at best may also have something to do with it. I cry UNCLE....LOL

[wishbonecav]

I'll clarify....scores shouldnt matter THIS MUCH (as if i hadnt already made the point, regardless the soccer/participation retort)

My solution to keeping it a contest was very clear: Announce the winner. Simple.

If you have another suggestion, make it.

What a shame that the best performance opportunities of the year for the Mini corps and Alumni are dismissed as a placated effort to soak people for their Prelims and Finals money. That kind of talk is a disgrace.

You feel used? If that's the case...if that's the consensus, then the DCA people have a heck of an easier time of it in 2013. Cancel I&E, mini-corps and Alumni....those "placated efforts" are obviuosly not appreciated by this crew that thinks its ok to speak for everyone. Who do you think you are?

i tried to offer some solutions and ideas in a forum where minds were made up long before i arrived. That, i guess, was my bad. You cats can fight amongst yourselves.

(and if you dont care to talk with me at DCA, that's cool...Jay and I can hang out for the day....he's a pretty stimulating conversation, once he "cleans his ears out", of course.) We'll invite Keith, too. While you guys mope around, we'll have a grand old time. Front and center at mini-corps, alumni, prelims and finals.

My handicap in this discussion is the need to make sense.

so wait,...........can't this be said for all corps?,..............field, junior, senior,..............kinda like when my kids were little and played soccer, they didn't keep score, why have a goalie, right?

this whole discussion is blown out of proportion, this same discussion has taken place years ago,...............MCA was started in a suggested effort to bring the discussion civillly forward, we met over the course of several years, sent Ponzo and DA to DCA meetings as our reps, only to be carelessly disregarded..............as Jeff and others have said, I know that the weekend is all about prelims and finals, and the mini corps, I&E, alumni, etc. is just a placated effort to get people to town and buy tickets to those events,..........many have said that drum corps is a dying artform, all of this is another way to help kill it off by shouting people down who are trying to partitpate in what is/was a facet of it,.............

Edited September 13, 2012 by wishbonecav

[Donny Drum Corps]

DA

Edited September 13, 2012 by Donny Drum Corps

[Gary Matczak]

I'll clarify....scores shouldnt matter THIS MUCH (as if i hadnt already made the point, regardless the soccer/participation retort)

My solution to keeping it a contest was very clear: Announce the winner. Simple.

If you have another suggestion, make it.

My handicap in this discussion is the need to make sense.

Please read my previous posts in this thread, and if you choose, address those..................all sorts of suggestions have been made recently as well as over the course of several years,........all falling on deaf ears,............why are my comments and the comments of others in this regard so offensive to you?,...........

My guess is that between performers and fans, somewhere between 50 and 100 people from Erie would attend the weekend events,.........this year, I know of about half a dozen maybe,...........you might just get your wish!