DCA I&E Mini Corps judging

[BigW]

I've been thinking about this really hard. Fran and Ream knows that's seriously dangerous.

I do know Donny, Gary, Joey, are all correct. They each hold a piece of the puzzle. All three build the whole picture.

Donny speaks from his heart- yet I do know Donny well enough to know Donny also competes with all his heart to do his very best, to be as great as he can be, and to do something exciting, entertaining, and worthwile. If he gives his finest effort for the fans and affects the audience positively and feels he's been scored fairly, he's good with it.

It's okay to be competitive as Gary says. I think Gary omitted the caveat that when you obssess.. it gets rather... unhealthy, as Jeff also alluded to.

I know if I had a Mini-Corps-- My main thing would be to do as well as we could as an organization and myself as a musician, avoid embarassing ourselves, hope the fans liked what we had to offer them and that we touched their hearts, and to be as great as we could be against some very fine people out there. If we placed well, I'd be flattered and take real pride in it- but it wouldn't be something I would obseess about. I'm pretty competitive-- but I mainly want to do my personal best, and let the rest fall out as it falls out.

I guess that's where Joey comes into the picture. The Minis have a chance to really reach out to the fans in a very personal and intimate way and do wonderful things. All three are right. All three complete the puzzle of why the Mini Corps are very special and also different than the normal competing corps.

What I may say now might not be "nice"- but when someone rants like they did to start this thread-- I don't feel the need to pour the honey over my words.

If you are out to win- and that's fine-- relying on judge's critiques sould not be as important as you make it out to be, especially at a high level. What they will do is tell you things you should already know or reinforce what's good about the group and remind you what your weaknesses are- and maybe ways to address it. If you are a winning, top level organzation, you will rarely hear anything you don't already know unless you're delusional, and think it's all 100% perfect.

Have you looked at the recordings of the top Minis from last year and this year that beat Mass Brass with an open and impartial mind (which I have a pretty unfortunate feeling might be a bit tough for you) and see what they do better than you in terms of content, effect, difficulty, and quality and figure out what you can do to top it? Part of my job when I staffed competing units was to do opposition research and see if we had a legitimate shot at them (sometimes- a group had us covered, and we pulled our pants up, understood this, and took it like Men and Women), and what we needed to work on and emphasize to try and beat those we could beat.

I've seen some minis here and there the last few years, mainly after Serenade, where I saw Mass Brass once and enjoyed it.

This may be hard to get your arms around, but my educated guess from seeing some videos of Star United and others is that the world's caught up, the Mini Corps in general have become a LOT better, and now what was once enough to win... now, is, just... not enough because everyone around you has seriously raised the bar in all aspects.

The question is how you respond to it. I think you'd be better served by thinking hard about next year's programming, looking at how to make best use of your talents and strengths, thiking about how much better the corps can play, and seeing if better use of rehearsal time can be squeezed out of the group somehow rather than kvetching about the end result on DCP and blaming the Judges.

Eric Kitchenmen taught me- and many others on DCP, incidentally-- that when something goes wrong and doesn't go the way yuo think it should, you need to look yourself HARD in the mirror, VERY hard first-- THEN... MAYBE... point the finger. Usually, you find something in the mirror that needs to be fixed first. Maybe... you need to go back and look hard in the mirror in an honest way. You may not like what you're seein' at first, it can be difficult, VERY difficult, I know-- but it's a healthy thing to do.

[captcastile]

Maybe read these two:

http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/index.php/topic/118264-mca-as-a-viable-and-valuable-circuit/

http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/index.php/topic/130209-mini-corps-review/

Tell me in the second one what the people at Star are made of after you read Becky's story. And then tell me how its just ok that the same crew from Mass Brass could respond to a lady with cancer by only worrying about themselves. The same attitude for 4 years. Me, me, me. Trust me, that lady meant more to the people at Star than some piece of tin that says World Champion. And I can say that with confidence because I KNOW them. They might not be your friends, but they danm well happen to be mine.

I've been on the stump for this for too long. After this discussion, I'm embarrassed that I bothered to support it at all.

Go ahead and read posts 1, 2 and 3 and draw your own conclusions. If I have to be put under the hot light for every turn of phrase, let it be the same for all.

Not one person noticed enough to say thank you. By the number of views, it looks like it wasnt that big a deal to begin with. But i didnt write that piece for my own benefit. I did it as a gift....a little "atta boy" for some people that worked pretty hard to entertain me that night. If something sucks around here, it aint me. I got my hardware over the years. Yippee. None of it matters. People matter.

Have a nice day.

You are a complete MORON! We knew nothing of the Becky story, but if you had listened to Fran during the announcement of our corps you would have heard that a marching member of OUR corps died of cancer the very morning of the show. His wish was to make to the Mini's but fell a little short. You have no idea what we went through as a group to help Rick Hagey try to make it to the Annapolis, carrying his horn for him, giving him rides or assisting him anyway we could to make his last wish come true. Don't you ever pretend to tell us how we should act or express ourselves over an unfortunate story that we knew nothing about! Your just making #### up now...people matter...practice what you preach. You just made this whole thing personal you fool! Talk about an apology needed.... we wouldn't expect to get one from somebody who so callasly used a sick person as an example to put down another group...like I said earlier...your a real class act

[Donny Drum Corps]

Mike,

This is real easy. As the OP, you can pull this whole thread down if you like. I knew about Rick, and when Bill S told me before the scores, I was devastated. Losing a brother must have been tough for you guys.

Gentlemen, please let us not let us this conversation become too insensitive to human feelings.

Donny

[captcastile]

I've been thinking about this really hard. Fran and Ream knows that's seriously dangerous.

I do know Donny, Gary, Joey, are all correct. They each hold a piece of the puzzle. All three build the whole picture.

Donny speaks from his heart- yet I do know Donny well enough to know Donny also competes with all his heart to do his very best, to be as great as he can be, and to do something exciting, entertaining, and worthwile. If he gives his finest effort for the fans and affects the audience positively and feels he's been scored fairly, he's good with it.

It's okay to be competitive as Gary says. I think Gary omitted the caveat that when you obssess.. it gets rather... unhealthy, as Jeff also alluded to.

I know if I had a Mini-Corps-- My main thing would be to do as well as we could as an organization and myself as a musician, avoid embarassing ourselves, hope the fans liked what we had to offer them and that we touched their hearts, and to be as great as we could be against some very fine people out there. If we placed well, I'd be flattered and take real pride in it- but it wouldn't be something I would obseess about. I'm pretty competitive-- but I mainly want to do my personal best, and let the rest fall out as it falls out.

I guess that's where Joey comes into the picture. The Minis have a chance to really reach out to the fans in a very personal and intimate way and do wonderful things. All three are right. All three complete the puzzle of why the Mini Corps are very special and also different than the normal competing corps.

What I may say now might not be "nice"- but when someone rants like they did to start this thread-- I don't feel the need to pour the honey over my words.

If you are out to win- and that's fine-- relying on judge's critiques sould not be as important as you make it out to be, especially at a high level. What they will do is tell you things you should already know or reinforce what's good about the group and remind you what your weaknesses are- and maybe ways to address it. If you are a winning, top level organzation, you will rarely hear anything you don't already know unless you're delusional, and think it's all 100% perfect.

Have you looked at the recordings of the top Minis from last year and this year that beat Mass Brass with an open and impartial mind (which I have a pretty unfortunate feeling might be a bit tough for you) and see what they do better than you in terms of content, effect, difficulty, and quality and figure out what you can do to top it? Part of my job when I staffed competing units was to do opposition research and see if we had a legitimate shot at them (sometimes- a group had us covered, and we pulled our pants up, understood this, and took it like Men and Women), and what we needed to work on and emphasize to try and beat those we could beat.

I've seen some minis here and there the last few years, mainly after Serenade, where I saw Mass Brass once and enjoyed it.

This may be hard to get your arms around, but my educated guess from seeing some videos of Star United and others is that the world's caught up, the Mini Corps in general have become a LOT better, and now what was once enough to win... now, is, just... not enough because everyone around you has seriously raised the bar in all aspects.

The question is how you respond to it. I think you'd be better served by thinking hard about next year's programming, looking at how to make best use of your talents and strengths, thiking about how much better the corps can play, and seeing if better use of rehearsal time can be squeezed out of the group somehow rather than kvetching about the end result on DCP and blaming the Judges.

Eric Kitchenmen taught me- and many others on DCP, incidentally-- that when something goes wrong and doesn't go the way yuo think it should, you need to look yourself HARD in the mirror, VERY hard first-- THEN... MAYBE... point the finger. Usually, you find something in the mirror that needs to be fixed first. Maybe... you need to go back and look hard in the mirror in an honest way. You may not like what you're seein' at first, it can be difficult, VERY difficult, I know-- but it's a healthy thing to do.

Extremely well said! Where have you been this whole thread? The OP came across a little more harsh than intended, fact of the matter is, I did not see any other Corps other than Star because of the position we were on, so when the scores came down, my reaction was lets see what the sheets say, this is the only thing we have as a tool to help us fix things. Some people say it's the last show so what does it really matter? Well for us it's the ONLY show, any type of input would have helped us for next year, we got nothing. I did not and have not blamed the Judges for our score, I just think they should do more to inform us of our weakness as well as our strengths. There was no sour grapes here, I didn't see anyone so how could I say we got screwed? I still think a little more effort from the judges is needed. If people think we're wrong for trying to improve, then that's on them. Thanks for your input.

[wishbonecav]

""

Edited September 13, 2012 by wishbonecav

[captcastile]

Mike,

This is real easy. As the OP, you can pull this whole thread down if you like. I knew about Rick, and when Bill S told me before the scores, I was devastated. Losing a brother must have been tough for you guys.

Gentlemen, please let us not let us this conversation become too insensitive to human feelings.

Donny

Donny,

Will you stop being the voice of reason...your starting to scare me. Rick was a great kid, great horn player, loved everything about Mini's. The fact that he willed himself to live until the day of the show, tells you everything you need to know. I guess in the big picture some things aren't as important as they may seem when it comes to real life.

What can we do to get Mini going in the right direction?

Mike

[wishbonecav]

""

Edited September 13, 2012 by wishbonecav

[rayfallon]

As one of the original mini-corps folks from way back in the early 90s (how did the early 90s become way back so soon?) I'm sad to read some of this, especially knowing some of the folks writing. Just a couple of random thoughts from a current non-combatant:

a) While he took kind of a long hot way to get there I agree with Mike (the Captain) that any competitor deserves to read or hear some rationale for the decisions. They may not agree but there should still be some constructive feedback to bring back to the rank and file. I might take issue with the idea that Mike or anyone else is going to base his winter program on that feedback but they're paying their fee and deserve the feedback they crave.

b) man - never play the "our corps has suffered more than your corps" bit. It's unworthy of both the activity and the brave folks who hung in there for their organizations. God Bless each and every corps member we've said good bye to due to cancer. Does anyone besides me think that the incidence of cancer seems way higher in our activity than in most?

c) as a group, and if DCP is indeed a group of supporters of this activity we've all loved, why spend so much energy blowing each other up? Like victimless crimes, I think Drum Corps is a hater-less activity. People love it. In today's economy it has become pretty expensive and I don't know about you guys - having turned 61 today I think some of us who post here are past the peak of our skills (I certainly am) and folks our age may be drifting away, but I don't think many folks are leaving because of the way shows are judged.

I love drum corps, which surely doesn't make me special on these pages. I love mini-corps - it's a cool way to express some things we can't do out on a football field, and it's still as drum corps as apple pie. I love folks like Capt Castille and Donny Allen who burn with almost literal fire for this activity. I love DCP although I haven't been around much since I moved to Texas - but it gives us a place to swap stories and opinions.

I love the whole dad-blamed mess, and I miss the folks who have passed on, and the ones I just don't get to see due to distance and age.

That's my 2 centavos and I'm sticking to it. In the words of a guy who probably could have been a drum corps guy had he gotten the chance "Can't we all just get along?"

[Donny Drum Corps]

I will go on and answer Mike as I already did earlier. In Kevin Hassan we have a guy that will listen, has drum corps savvy, has enough political juice to posiibly get a sway in one direction if necessary.

This is an opportunity for us to utilize this and submit ideas to him for consideration. Will they all fly, probably not. Our job is to maintain our cool through this process.

If it would do any good, begin a task force of representatives of competing corps that can bring a group conscience of sorts from their corps. These are some ideas.

DA

[wishbonecav]

""

Edited September 13, 2012 by wishbonecav