MikeD Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 actually, i've suggested it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 ok... since you are someone I admire and respect... perhaps you can answer my burning questions to electronics but first a couple facts: 1. Change is inevitable 2. Change will happen 3. Change is not always good, but it's also not always bad 4. I am resolved that electronics has made its way into drum corps (via the end run through the band circuits) and will probably stay with us 5. I think the issue of cost of electronics is extremely underrated when discussing it in all aged/weekend warrior corps where budgets are far more critical ok... I'm looking for answers to just these questions: 1. Electronics done bad does not seem to hurt the score. Electronics done extremely well may or may not help the score... To be accepted, the judges must properly penalize electronics when it is done poorly - even if the error or failure is not caused by the performers... why not???? The only thing that can possibly allow electronics to be accepted by all is if it's done correctly by all... this will never happen... So, penalizing those who do something wrong seems basically correct to my adjudication oriented mind... agree? And as a former adjudicator/administrator/judge trainer, I get it when something beyond the control of the performer occurs and the judge is reluctant to fully penalize the performers even if it ruins the show... BUT... this is wrong... bad electronics must equal bad score... agree? I too have been a judge, since starting in 1976 in the Garden State circuit. Judged probably 50+ corps shows and 150+ band shows from 1976 onward. If I am judging a music caption upstairs, I evaluate ALL of the sound being produced. If a synth is too loud for the rest of the ensemble, it should impact the score...it does when I am judging! If a micced marimba has the volume too high and is therefore not in good balance with the ensemble...then it too should impact the score, just as if the battery is too loud for the winds, be it an all brass corps or a WW/Brass marching band. Sound is sound; it makes no difference how it is produced when I am judging. When and if that doesn't happen...it is a judge training issue, not the fault of permitting the voices in the first place. One thing that is happening, from my reading here and watching bands and corps, is that the concept of a good ensemble sound is changing with amplified pits and added electronic instruments. You see it here in DCP. Some complain that the pits are too loud while others say they are just fine...at the same show sitting in close to the same spot. 2. Scenario: Corps A has 8 contras... Corps B has 2 contras and a bass guitar in the pit with a great amp system... with very delicate and superbly done control of the volume, Corps B creates the same effect at all the right times as Corps A... ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL... performance, quality of those performers they do have in both corps, difficulty level etc etc... the two corps are completely equal... Who gets more credit? or is it a tie? Depends on the caption. If the caption includes physical demand as a factor, then the 8 tubas/contras would gain a little advantage in that caption, such as Music Performance. If the caption does not include physical demand as part of the evaluation, like Effect, than for me there would be no difference in how I score them, all things being equal as you note above. You see - after the potential to bankrupt the underfunded all aged part of the activity - this is MY biggest fear... paying the big bucks for a quality electronics system whether it includes a bass guitar or synthesizers may become more important than recruiting a living and breathing human body... To me - with all things being equal - 8 contras win every time over 2 contras and a bass guitar... even though the effects and everything else may be equal... I have zero fear of the above happening. Now I may be totally wrong on this and missing the possibility that the Europeans may be right... keep the corps at 40 to 50 people instead of 120 and your budget problems are reduced by over 50% (plus you have to add to that lower budget whatever the cost of the electronics is) BUT I'm sorry, drum corps - all the 60 years I've been in it - is about people. It is about the thousands of brothers and sisters I got to love and respect in the decades we all strived for success and excellence and to please the audience, and I see the attempt to replace humans with electrons as deplorable... It is still humans producing the sounds, whether they play them on a tuba or on a synth or guitar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Detweiler Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 It is still humans producing the sounds, whether they play them on a tuba or on a synth or guitar. Gotta call you on this one. It depends of course on the original source but playing sampled, pre recorded sound bites is definitely not a human produced sound. These are issues the judging community is going to have to come to terms with in the band world very soon. It is becoming very prevelant in the upper levels of the high school scene. Are judges going to reward well produced and staged Broadway type shows where the students actually play for 70 to 80 percent of the time and the rest is filled in with sound bites and sampled recordings? Are they going to reward designer achievement or student achievement? Perhaps there is a happy balance somewhere but as of yet, they have not found it. Dan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 It is still humans producing the sounds, whether they play them on a tuba or on a synth or guitar. Gotta call you on this one. It depends of course on the original source but playing sampled, pre recorded sound bites is definitely not a human produced sound. These are issues the judging community is going to have to come to terms with in the band world very soon. It is becoming very prevelant in the upper levels of the high school scene. Are judges going to reward well produced and staged Broadway type shows where the students actually play for 70 to 80 percent of the time and the rest is filled in with sound bites and sampled recordings? Are they going to reward designer achievement or student achievement? Perhaps there is a happy balance somewhere but as of yet, they have not found it. Dan I was responding to Toms's comparison of using 2 contras and an electric bass versus using 8 contras to create the exact same sound. Using sampled bits here and there is another topic worthy of discussion, but Tom's question was not about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Not really...lots of shows are packed with cheering fans. I had to buy a back side/SRO ticket at one show I attended as a walk-in this past summer as one example. a DCA show?,..........which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Also used to cut down on pit orchestra size..... When the keyboards can be made to sound like various instruments... why use the real things..... cause the union says you can't,.............just like the union workers turned down other power company volunteers in the relief effort who were not union workers,............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) cause the union says you can't,.............just like the union workers turned down other power company volunteers in the relief effort who were not union workers,............. Both are new to me Gary. Can't remember where I saw the music pit issues.... But lemme guess about the power company location... NYC???? Been following in the NY Daily News and getting uglier. Oen thing I learned is Rockaway has people who would fit in at Erie or north of Harrisburg area. "We got people banging our door claiming they're with the power company... yeah right.... we're set for next time... and we won't made noise either" Pic has a guy with a crossbow. Edited November 6, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 a DCA show?,..........which one? Oh, I thought he was talking more globally about drum corps in general...my reference was to a DCI show in NJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 cause the union says you can't,.............just like the union workers turned down other power company volunteers in the relief effort who were not union workers,............. Which is an untrue story floating around the interwebs..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 But lemme guess about the power company location... NYC???? Been following in the NY Daily News and getting uglier. Oen thing I learned is Rockaway has people who would fit in at Erie or north of Harrisburg area. "We got people banging our door claiming they're with the power company... yeah right.... we're set for next time... and we won't made noise either" Pic has a guy with a crossbow. As I said, the union / non-workers story is bs. 2 Governors have shot it down. The power company in the supposed sory (version interwebs 1) put something up on their website specifically regarding it explaining it was bs. But it's on the internet, so it must be true..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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