JimF-LowBari Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) As I said, the union / non-workers story is bs. 2 Governors have shot it down. The power company in the supposed story (version interwebs 1) put something up on their website specifically regarding it explaining it was bs. But it's on the internet, so it must be true..... Thanks for the info Liz... No idea how the NY/NJ mess is being handled but here (less screwed up) the crews work individually so no one could check anyway. They just get directed to the next job by the local power company (PA Power & Light/Met Ed) as they finish each repair/replacement. Does this mean if say on the I-net that I'm 6' 2" handsome, thin and have a full head or hair it won't come true? ####, #### and aw #####....... But my eyes ARE brown...... Edited November 6, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Both are new to me Gary. Can't remember where I saw the music pit issues.... Several years back, a Broadway musical... I think the show was "Contact"... stirred up some controversy by using pre-recorded music instead of a live pit orchestra. From what I remember, the musician's union was not happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairbear Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I was responding to Toms's comparison of using 2 contras and an electric bass versus using 8 contras to create the exact same sound. Using sampled bits here and there is another topic worthy of discussion, but Tom's question was not about that. Lets use the electric bass as an example. The first Fender electric bass was named the "Precision Bass". It was so named because unlike the upright acoustic bass it replaced, it had frets. That meant that the Fender bass player could play any note on the fretboard with 100% accuracy. Hence: "Precision". The upright bass player was required to "tune as you play" and needed a good "ear" for pitch. A contra player also needs a good ear because the skill required to play the instrument requires more than just pressing the correct valve(s) of the contra. It requires emboucher control, proper breathing tecnique and pitch recognition. Who should recieve more credit on the judging sheets: The electric bass player, playing a fast moving passage (walking bass line) or the 8 Contras playing the same passage? Because quite frankly, it's easier to do on an electric bass than it is by 8 contra players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Several years back, a Broadway musical... I think the show was "Contact"... stirred up some controversy by using pre-recorded music instead of a live pit orchestra. From what I remember, the musician's union was not happy. What I'm kind of remembering now is Broadway using more musicians who can play multiple instruments and arrangements that do not call for these instruments playing at the same time. Just remember the TV film report of the guy with 6 instruments around him explianing how he has to jump from one to another. Bottom line... less warm bodies to pay. And local theaters I'm seeing are using more keyboards and decreasing the size of what was already a smaller pit. No idea how arrangements are handled (thought for that DCI side thread). Edited November 6, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Several years back, a Broadway musical... I think the show was "Contact"... stirred up some controversy by using pre-recorded music instead of a live pit orchestra. From what I remember, the musician's union was not happy. More recent than that ... and it's on the Internet, so it must be true ... just kidding Liz ... Monday, May 16, 2011 Broadway Musicians' Union Sounds Off About Recorded Music The fur and feather boas are flying in New York, where the Broadway musicians union is waging what the New York Times in a story Sunday calls an unusually aggressive, political-style campaign against the producers of the musical Priscilla Queen of the Desert. The dispute centers on the use of recorded music as a substitute for some of the 18 or 19 live musicians generally required under the union contract for Broadway musicals. And what's more, the fight echoes 1940s disputes that helped result in modern-day residuals. Andy "your pre-recorded MC" Lisko (Just don't change the lineup) Edited November 6, 2012 by ajlisko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Sorry the whole non-union workers turned away who came to help thing got so out of hand with literally seeing people (friends) screaming at each other because 1 mindset was sooooo 100% positive it was true.... Didn't Broadway shut down for a bit due to a union strike not all that long ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Sorry the whole non-union workers turned away who came to help thing got so out of hand with literally seeing people (friends) screaming at each other because 1 mindset was sooooo 100% positive it was true.... Didn't Broadway shut down for a bit due to a union strike not all that long ago? 2007 - Stagehands ... don't know if it actually shut down any productions ... Edited November 6, 2012 by ajlisko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Sorry the whole non-union workers turned away who came to help thing got so out of hand with literally seeing people (friends) screaming at each other because 1 mindset was sooooo 100% positive it was true.... Didn't Broadway shut down for a bit due to a union strike not all that long ago? First I heard of it so no problem...... Andy... I remember reading that some musicals were shut down a few years back but can't remember details. Weird.... only remember that "Shrek the Musical" got an article because "Shrek" was mixing with the audience the day the doors reopened. OK - remember it cuz I worked with a guy we called Shrek. Looked like him from the back. Edited November 6, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 ok... since you are someone I admire and respect... perhaps you can answer my burning questions to electronics but first a couple facts: 1. Change is inevitable 2. Change will happen 3. Change is not always good, but it's also not always bad 4. I am resolved that electronics has made its way into drum corps (via the end run through the band circuits) and will probably stay with us 5. I think the issue of cost of electronics is extremely underrated when discussing it in all aged/weekend warrior corps where budgets are far more critical ok... I'm looking for answers to just these questions: 1. Electronics done bad does not seem to hurt the score. Electronics done extremely well may or may not help the score... To be accepted, the judges must properly penalize electronics when it is done poorly - even if the error or failure is not caused by the performers... why not???? The only thing that can possibly allow electronics to be accepted by all is if it's done correctly by all... this will never happen... So, penalizing those who do something wrong seems basically correct to my adjudication oriented mind... agree? And as a former adjudicator/administrator/judge trainer, I get it when something beyond the control of the performer occurs and the judge is reluctant to fully penalize the performers even if it ruins the show... BUT... this is wrong... bad electronics must equal bad score... agree? 2. Scenario: Corps A has 8 contras... Corps B has 2 contras and a bass guitar in the pit with a great amp system... with very delicate and superbly done control of the volume, Corps B creates the same effect at all the right times as Corps A... ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL... performance, quality of those performers they do have in both corps, difficulty level etc etc... the two corps are completely equal... Who gets more credit? or is it a tie? You see - after the potential to bankrupt the underfunded all aged part of the activity - this is MY biggest fear... paying the big bucks for a quality electronics system whether it includes a bass guitar or synthesizers may become more important than recruiting a living and breathing human body... To me - with all things being equal - 8 contras win every time over 2 contras and a bass guitar... even though the effects and everything else may be equal... Now I may be totally wrong on this and missing the possibility that the Europeans may be right... keep the corps at 40 to 50 people instead of 120 and your budget problems are reduced by over 50% (plus you have to add to that lower budget whatever the cost of the electronics is) BUT I'm sorry, drum corps - all the 60 years I've been in it - is about people. It is about the thousands of brothers and sisters I got to love and respect in the decades we all strived for success and excellence and to please the audience, and I see the attempt to replace humans with electrons as deplorable... :worthy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 If I am judging a music caption upstairs, I evaluate ALL of the sound being produced. If a synth is too loud for the rest of the ensemble, it should impact the score...it does when I am judging! If a micced marimba has the volume too high and is therefore not in good balance with the ensemble...then it too should impact the score, just as if the battery is too loud for the winds, be it an all brass corps or a WW/Brass marching band. Sound is sound; it makes no difference how it is produced when I am judging. When and if that doesn't happen...it is a judge training issue, not the fault of permitting the voices in the first place. Judge training can and IS affected by...well....lack of balls and political pressure. Doing what should be the right thing can actually be the wrong thing politically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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