OrlandoContraAlum Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Well, isn't this fun. The Fan Network is now missing shows from the following: Blue Devils Cadets Cavaliers Jersey Surf Crossmen Spirit of Atlanta. Further, Surf's Semifinals show fades to black at the beginning of Party Rock, with the all-to-familiar "Video is not available due to music licensing considerations" message. This really sucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Well, isn't this fun. The Fan Network is now missing shows from the following: Blue Devils, Cadets, Cavaliers, Jersey Surf, Crossmen, Spirit of Atlanta. Further, Surf's Semifinals show fades to black at the beginning of Party Rock, with the all-to-familiar "Video is not available due to music licensing considerations" message. This really sucks. Cadets is probably the audio clips already discussed. Blue Devils used a lot of sampled (mostly spoken) voice --which almost everyone here disliked!-- but if the rights couldn't be secured, large sections of their show could be cut. Cavaliers had the Warhol quote (was it really his voice?) plus some Bowie, as I recall. Surf you've covered. I don't remember voice in Crossmen. Spirit had the Sinatra clips in the preshow, and I remember someone identifying the voice in the middle as Eminem -- is that right? Since none of the shows above was actually improved by sampled voice, I won't mourn their absence -- but they shouldn't have been used in the first place. And of course, it's very annoying for the CD or DVD to go silent or dark. The loss of actual music (or of the video while the music is played, as with Scouts' ESoM) is much more disheartening. Ought there to be some level of cutting which would be considered severe enough for DCI to refund part of one's DVD purchase price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beingmad Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) Went to show a friend Academy 2011 and the finals video was taken down from Fan Network. I'm sure there are others... Add Crossmen 2011 Edited November 2, 2012 by beingmad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 so in other words, watching old shows on the FN and buying dvds is about to be worthless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) so in other words, watching old shows on the FN and buying dvds is about to be worthless I don't believe so. As problems are discovered, remedies are sought. But things are certainly trickier now than they had been in the past and I wouldn't be surprised if shows become being designed more to get around these problems...and problems that might crop up in the future. It is the hope of everyone involved with DCI to be able to offer as much content as is absolutely possible. It may be requiring more work in the near future...but it certainly is being addressed and the issue is being taken seriously. PS: Seriously, it is the hope of everyone involved with DCI that we can find a solution to all this and make unblemished the audio and video heritage of our past, present and future shows for all. PPS: Seeing that a number of people apparently disagree with my transparency in being willing to openly discuss the truth about people working to at least attempt to resolve these issues as best they can, and that everyone with DCI wants to find a solution...Would people just prefer that I not attempt to bridge the gap between those that honestly want to know what's going on and those who know the answers? Because I'm cool with whatever folks want. I just don't quite comprehend the "shoot the messenger" sense I'm picking up from this, as I've always felt an obligation to let people on DCP know what's going on if I have the information. I thought people appreciated that sort of candor, but I apologize if I'm mistaken. Edited November 2, 2012 by Michael Boo 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I don't believe so. As problems are discovered, remedies are sought. But things are certainly trickier now than they had been in the past and I wouldn't be surprised if shows become being designed more to get around these problems...and problems that might crop up in the future. But is it financially worth it to DCI to spend money to clear up legal issues on old shows? FN has already been paid for and can't see that many sales of CD/DVDs of past years. Come to think of it, if someone finds a show from the past with a legal problem what would DCIs options be for selling CD/DVDs? I'm thinking re-record the show with the problem areas blank (cost money) or not sell the CD/DVD with the offending show. Ugh.... might be cheaper for DCI just not to sell those CDs/DVDs anymore (no idea what it would cost to re-record for future sales). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 As one who's been vocal in defending the clips despite the licensing mess, even I am distressed. Still, I think the solution isn't crawling back into a hole. We can't just retreat to the past just because it's convenient. The way forward includes electronics and mixed media. So we need a solution that keeps drum corps current and relevant. Surely we're not the only ones in this situation. Surely there are other artists with whom we can join to set a proper precedent for fair use in cases such as this where the commercial opportunities for the copyright holder aren't really at risk. WGI and High school bands (through their state organizations) are two obvious potential partners. We might also find friends among ballets and even the many dance schools scattered across the country. Community theaters and numerous others probably face similar dilemmas. Copyright and licensing law was never intended as an absolute prohibition on uses that have no commerical impact on the property in question. On the contrary, the law provides specifically for exceptions in instances where there is no commecial impact. We need to push the agenda in this respect. And we ought to find willing partners in the effort. HH 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 But is it financially worth it to DCI to spend money to clear up legal issues on old shows? FN has already been paid for and can't see that many sales of CD/DVDs of past years. Come to think of it, if someone finds a show from the past with a legal problem what would DCIs options be for selling CD/DVDs? I'm thinking re-record the show with the problem areas blank (cost money) or not sell the CD/DVD with the offending show. Ugh.... might be cheaper for DCI just not to sell those CDs/DVDs anymore (no idea what it would cost to re-record for future sales). I don't know. What I do know is I don't have any of the answers I wish I had. I understand the frustration because I share it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post cowtown Posted November 2, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted November 2, 2012 PS: Seriously, it is the hope of everyone involved with DCI that we can find a solution to all this and make unblemished the audio and video heritage of our past, present and future shows for all. changing the rules about sampled audio would go a long way in solving many, not all, of these problems A patch rule would be to allow only originally created samples Anyone propose that in the rules pow wow ? It’s frustrating that this is becoming so common, many of the designers that demanded these new tools have shown themselves to be idiots that clearly can’t use them correctly I have less respect for the designers that have failed us – what sort of education are they providing, I’m missing the teaching moment here And save the artist expression junk…it’s so self indulgent more so in an audience dependent medium it's out of hand 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Still, I think the solution isn't crawling back into a hole. We can't just retreat to the past just because it's convenient. The way forward includes electronics and mixed media. So we need a solution that keeps drum corps current and relevant. That’s an offensive red herring and shows a lack of understanding about electronics and drum corps….almost like some of the world class top designers I think the corps and the designers that messed up should take a hit, pro-rate their cut of the sales to the missing content.. It the reverse G7 – how much will Blue Devils, Cadets and Cavies cost other corps because people don’t want to buy a chopped up DVD that would also benefit other corps…and if I’m to believe those corps are driving sales, should they be hit harder? at this point, I’d be for DCI stepping in a taking away some of the ‘rights’ of the corps and just ramming through a rule change…it’d be for the good of the activity because this clearly isn’t 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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