glory Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 and haul DCI and/or the Cadets into alengthy court battle neither can afford. DCI is trying to keep DCI together, and the Cadets are trying to break it up, both of which require cash There's a better chance that Jeff didn't read my post than there is that the Charlie Brown folks would have sued. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Now this is what I call evidence. On a side note, I noticed in one of the links in Jeff Reams WGI post that both Jay Bocook (Cadets) and Richard Saucedo (Blue Stars for 2013) are listed in the Hal Leonard section as work that is available under their license for an arranged fee. Gee, I wonder if they'll notice if we steal from them... the reason you see these guys and others listed under original works by others on BMI and ASCAP, is because if your permitted arrangement of a tune, borrows heavily from their permitted arrangement of a tune (that is formally copyrighted, example: big band charts of broadway show tunes) you need their permission too,...............REALLY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Another perspective on the copyright "controversy" is how this is an issue only as regards video. No one is challenging the right to perform these alleged infringers of copyright. No even is challenging the right to take money in the process of performing them. Nor to record the audio or to take money for that. The only issue is video. How half-pregnant is that? So the copyright is intact for live performance. Intact for audio. It applies even though you take money for each. But video crosses the line? It's all the more idiotic in the Charlie Brown context where no video was taken - only audio. The audio is okay. But the audio from the video on the video isn't? I'll say it again: Good grief. HH PS: Don't lecture me on sync license and millenium video act. I get it. It's stupid. That's my point. Um, no... several people have pointed out that all the uses you mention require a license of that specific type. And the corps obtains those licenses. The reason video is a problem is that the sync license takes longer to get. Are you reading all the posts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Um, no... several people have pointed out that all the uses you mention require a license of that specific type. And the corps obtains those licenses. The reason video is a problem is that the sync license takes longer to get. Are you reading all the posts? Ummm... Did you notice my PS? Of course I do. I've said as much. I am pointing to the big picture -the copyright/expression forest, not the tangled mess of law/lawyer trees. You must admit the copyright regime in many of these instances is inconsistent. You copyright a song, a fundamentally audio property. You give permission for audio purposes then deny permission for video - of something audio! I know what the law is. I'm just saying it is silly that we are in this stupid predicament. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 This has now been added to the DCI store page for the 2012 DVDs: Drum Corps International adheres to copyright law and respects the intellectual property rights of artists whose works are performed by its member organizations. Periodically, edits to performances are necessary due to these video and music licensing considerations. Drum Corps International performs these edits to the best of our ability to maintain the quality and integrity of the performances while still complying with intellectual property rights and copyright law. The following is a listing of performing edits necessary along with the corresponding products: DCI World Championships DVD Volume 1 and Blu-ray The Cadets: 6 seconds of video and audio of unlicensed, pre-recorded material has been removed The Cadets: 31 seconds of audio of unlicensed, pre-recorded material has been muted. The video of this segment is provided in its entirety. Spirit of Atlanta: 19 seconds of video and audio of unlicensed, pre-recorded material has been removed. Interesting that the do not mention BD and others ... This information was not on the page back at the start of the season when we started purchasing the products. In itself that's not a huge list of cuts, if that's as far as it goes. But if this trend continues I will be re-thinking FN and DVDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedawn Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 This thread is amazing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Ummm... Did you notice my PS? Of course I do. I've said as much. I am pointing to the big picture -the copyright/expression forest, not the tangled mess of law/lawyer trees. You must admit the copyright regime in many of these instances is inconsistent. You copyright a song, a fundamentally audio property. You give permission for audio purposes then deny permission for video - of something audio! I know what the law is. I'm just saying it is silly that we are in this stupid predicament. HH Yeah, it's pretty complex and yet murky. I suspect it's mostly about royalties. All the other licenses are cheap and simple because there are no royalties possible, no 'back end money'. But once video is involved there could potentially be big money (tv show, or music video), so they want to negotiate all the details of the use to see if there might be some royalty money potential. Which there is in the case of DCI, though small. Maybe if there were a way to convince all the rights holders that as far as non-profit performing arts education organizations goes, there isn't enough royalty potential to make it worth dragging it out, the process could be streamlined. I don't know if there's a way all these activities (MB, DC, CG, drill teams, etc.) could make a deal en masse with all the rights holders. There's no interest group representing all of our activities to conduct the negotiations. Unless we were to, say, create one... (Solution #5 I think?) Edited November 9, 2012 by Pete Freedman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamMan Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 God forbid we ever see the day when all Drum Corp are playing original music due to licensing rights & royalties. Without recognizable music this activity is gone. Question: Do High School & College marching bands sell CD's & DVD's of their performances? How do they handle this issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 There's a better chance that Jeff didn't read my post than there is that the Charlie Brown folks would have sued. HH oh I read your post. However you lined up to kick the football and I pulled it away. You may have been distracted waiting for the Great Pumpkin to arrive 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 God forbid we ever see the day when all Drum Corp are playing original music due to licensing rights & royalties. Without recognizable music this activity is gone. Question: Do High School & College marching bands sell CD's & DVD's of their performances? How do they handle this issue? any circuit and video company with a brain is getting clearances and licensing proof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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