Jeff Ream Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I was looking through some articles on the Drum Corps World archive, and although most of the articles are available in print only, there doesn't seem to be a lot of mention of this issue from what's available online. In particular, no one seems to be trying to interview Gibbs, Hopkins, et al to really get at their intentions. Such as "Does the G7 intend to start a separate drum corps league? Has it been seriously discussed?" Stuff like that. This interview with Jeff Fiedler from 5/2011 is the closest I could find. And other than a quick "Where do you think this is going?" and a "This will naturally evolve." answer, there is no attempt to really put any of them on the spot on this. Nor do I see things like "At press time, George Hopkins had not returned our phone calls." Are there any other interviews, particularly recent ones, of the G7 directors about the possibility of a new circuit? they have been contacted. they won't talk about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I've seen the videos. They are great, but constrained compared to DCI. And of course they exist to fire up the sports fans, they just receive additional support to do well at BOA, which is wonderful. I didn't say they were bad, quite the opposite; I think what they do is great. I regret not having marched in band myself. But they are all high school bands. They are constrained compared to DCI. And my key point stands: The members have no choice. I don't mean to diss them. I was merely rejecting the argument that the role of the non-G7 corps is somehow filled by marching bands, which was a ridiculous implication made by Daniel Ray. actually, the shows you see on the field from competitive bands in any circuit have little to do with firing up sports fans. What they play in the stands before, during and after they do that pregame or halftime show is what fires up the sports fans. One of the biggest complaints I heard in 26 years of teaching competitive marching band came from people not tied to the band....'why isn't your show more pump em up rah rah like what you play in the stands" then you take the time to explain the difference between "pep band" and "competitive band" etc...and the average joe says...well, competition is boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Too bad - they're actually very good shows. Weather aside, I thought the one in Houston last year was the most fun I've probably had at a live show as far as format is concerned. My kids got to get their pictures with Phantom members before the show, we got to hear a *ton* of I&E performances, some neat little contests and features in the break, and we got to tell guys from the Cavaliers how much we loved their show as we were leaving. Sure, it's all little stuff that DCI could probably make standard at all of their events, but it really got my kids believing the corps members were rock stars. And the lineup was essentially a "best of" Finals group. I have always loved Madison, and you have no soul if you dislike Boston, but I don't think it's exactly heresy to say that if I have a choice between BD/Cadets/Cavaliers/PR/SCV/Bluecoats/Crown and Madison/BAC/BK/Spirit/Glassmen/Troopers/Academy, I'm going to see the G-7 show. And, of course, at the end of the day there's no reason I can't go see both if it comes down to it. Mike honestly....I'm not going to a G7/TOC whatever they call themselves show out of principle. I refuse to give my hard earned dollars so they can break off and do their own ego trip. I'm one of those guys that goes to DCA prelims and sits through every corps ( the review is over there). I go to Allentown and sit through every corps ( the review is in the forums). I'm a fan of DCI, and DCA. Not just any one corps. I have to be honest, the rudest fans I see year and year are in Allentown, that march their maroon way into the stadium just as their corps takes the field, won't shut up while they're on, and then gold their ##### out of the stands as soon as their corps is done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Yes, but if you get the 'no comment', or the 'didn't return the phone call' you create the embarrassment that makes it worth their while to open up. actually, I think there wee comments at the time in a few places. You could check with Steve Vickers....publisher@drumcorpsworld.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I guess I'm trying to say I see no issue with the G-7, which aren't necessarily the "best" corps, but are the overwhelming draws for attendance and interest, looking for leverage to support their own interests. I'm not a fan of brinksmanship (and it appears there is a background game of it going on), but it's natural for any organization of this nature to have a number of competiting interests bumping up against each other. I do find it curious that Madison is not included in the group - it seems they're a natural fit - but again, there are politics and personalities involved and a whole ton of stuff we don't know about. As far as earlier concessions, it might have back then affected different corps, for sure. I just wonder, again in hindsight, if flattening out pay scales, etc, might have inadvertently steered us towards this collision. Mike honestly...I'm sure Madison is out for two reasons: one, at the time this all started, Madison was just starting to rebrand/rebuild after a few years of...well...mixed results. two....I think they knew Madison would say no. The kicker that really surprises me is Cavies. I mean ok, Adolph runs the corps, but the Old Man is still alive, and full of #### and vinegar, and DCi was partially his baby.I can't imagine he'd let the Cavies walk out on DCI. Face it, until about 1985, The Cavies needed DCI far more than DCi needed the Cavies 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Aces Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) What??? L.D. Bell, Avon, Marcus, Carmel, Broken Arrow, Union, Owasso, etc. Constrained compared to DCI? Exist to fire up sports fans? What sports exactly? You know we're not talk about the Marching Bands of America Summer Nationals in Whitewater right? Yet another wonderfully informed opinion of the 'band world' found on DCP. I'm with you on everything that you said except for the comment about Summer Nationals at Whitewater (I was a member of a band that competed there every summer and did quite well too). What exactly was wrong with the product there? I'm sure Marian Catholic, Live Oak, Norwin, Sylva Webster, etc. would all disagree with you... Edited November 21, 2012 by Quad Aces 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I guess I'm trying to say I see no issue with the G-7, which aren't necessarily the "best" corps, but are the overwhelming draws for attendance and interest, looking for leverage to support their own interests. I'm not a fan of brinksmanship (and it appears there is a background game of it going on), but it's natural for any organization of this nature to have a number of competiting interests bumping up against each other. I do find it curious that Madison is not included in the group - it seems they're a natural fit - but again, there are politics and personalities involved and a whole ton of stuff we don't know about. As far as earlier concessions, it might have back then affected different corps, for sure. I just wonder, again in hindsight, if flattening out pay scales, etc, might have inadvertently steered us towards this collision. Mike Mike, I was either brain dead or busy with life, but I missed this. Can you tell me how, exactly or even roughly, they "flattened the pay scale", please? From what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I guess I'm trying to say I see no issue with the G-7, which aren't necessarily the "best" corps, but are the overwhelming draws for attendance and interest, looking for leverage to support their own interests. I'm not a fan of brinksmanship (and it appears there is a background game of it going on), but it's natural for any organization of this nature to have a number of competiting interests bumping up against each other. Thanks for the explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Mike, I was either brain dead or busy with life, but I missed this. Can you tell me how, exactly or even roughly, they "flattened the pay scale", please? From what? Dusting off the far corners of the memory banks here, but in the early 2000's, they changed appearance fees from a placement-based structure to one that was flatter and encompassed more groupings of corps. I want to say this was around the same time as the change to WC/OC, as the intent was for you to pay a WC fee and get a WC corps. However, take all of this with a grain of salt; I'm trying to dig up references at the moment, so until then, it's all just my recollection from 10-ish years ago. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNCGQ Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I'm with you on everything that you said except for the comment about Summer Nationals at Whitewater (I was a member of a band that competed there every summer and did quite well too). What exactly was wrong with the product there? I'm sure Marian Catholic, Live Oak, Norwin, Sylva Webster, etc. would all disagree with you... "What??? L.D. Bell, Avon, Marcus, Carmel, Broken Arrow, Union, Owasso, etc. Constrained compared to DCI? Exist to fire up sports fans? What sports exactly? Yet another wonderfully informed opinion of the 'band world' found on DCP." Fixed it. It was an attempt at humor, swing and a miss. No harm intended to the 'founding bands' of what later became BoA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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