JimF-LowBari Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 So if it isn't complimentary it is bashing? Just trying to understand the logic here. John had some good points but I read good bit of snark in "what 800 people at the Alumni Spectular" and other posts that sounded like DCA would do better by cutting this dead weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) Now, what is with all the doom and gloom on this thread all of a sudden? This is the post that seems to have generated it: Okay, everyone seems to have bought into this premise. But why? These are great points. But they have been true since 1920. The activity must be suffering a particularly slow death. I do share your concern that too few corps could burst the bubble, and force changes to the travel habits of the surviving corps. I think that is a bigger concern on the DCI side, where nationwide tours require a certain number of corps and shows to be practical. But those would be changes, not total destruction. But that is just it. Corps have been climbing ever higher mountains all through time. Drum corps competition has driven these people to these extremes both on and off the field. As it gets more difficult, we may well see corps drop out. Others will view that as an opportunity to enter the competition (or move up, if already in it). Maybe the net effect will be less corps, but they will not all evaporate in 5 years like some say. I am not kidding about 1920, by the way. Travel was far more challenging back in the 1920s and 1930s, yet dozens upon dozens of corps from all over the country piled on trains with all their equipment and found their way to nationals back then. The activity continued undeterred through a full fledged economic depression. It may have been more miraculous back then. Maybe the explanation is that the governing organizations back then, AL and VFW, had a strategy for developing and growing the activity from top to bottom. They organized contests at the local, state and national levels. They developed guides for how to start a corps, and distributed that information to their posts all over the country. They published other promotional materials to encourage the creation of more corps. And their conventions even provided the audiences whose ticket purchases subsidized this wave of growth. Since DCA and DCI have taken the roles AL and VFW used to serve, there has never been a comparable strategy formulated and executed to grow the activity. For 40 to 50 years, drum corps has continued on without a strategy, and it is still here. It will still be here in another 5. And imagine if DCI and/or DCA developed a strategy. This is largely true already, by the manner in which drum corps and competitive marching band have aligned with each other. And there is no reason DCA cannot follow that alignment just like DCI has. One point being missed is the lack of new corps coming in to replace corps that go inective either one season or permanently. For a DCI model that promotes top corps there hasn't been a new WC corps for a while IIRC. And same can be said for DCAs top class with exception of Kidsgrove (oldest corps out there) coming accross the pond. That's the part that makes me cringe for the future. As for the 1920s/30s model there were more corps that didn't go to Nationals than did. Of course lot of states had State AL/VFW championships at their state convention which was their big show. And the Nats/States was the only show that had a lot of travel so not really a touring model like today. And AL/VFW had no strategy that I could tell, just the individual Posts that could get equipment cheaply enough to be able to afford it. And the corps was one way for the Posts and towns like Sleepy Eye, MN (my fav name) and Biddeford, ME (stayed there one night) to show their local pride at Nats. And lot of those local corps were parade corps only but lot of competitive parades then (even PA AL had a 'Parade Class' Champ for some years). Just for reference my 20s/30s info comes from some 30s DC Manuals I bought off of eBay and the history of my one corps that started in 1920 in a town few people have heard of. Never went to Nats but at States a bunch of times. Edited January 7, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Here's where we are today . . . Less competing corps Smaller competing corps Smaller crowds Higher operating costs for participants and audience These are HUGE hurdles to overturn. We can all agree, changes are necessary. Keep the ideas flowing, but leave your egos at the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Now then, could this help . . . Limit maximum corps size to 80. Benefits include. . . Reducing back to 2 buses required. Lower equipment costs. Smaller staff. A more level playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Now then, could this help . . . Limit maximum corps size to 80. Benefits include. . . Reducing back to 2 buses required. Lower equipment costs. Smaller staff. A more level playing field. No. I don't think it would help. It won't help the 'haves' and it won't help the "have nots". Because there are people, just like in DCI, that if they can't play with the big boys, won't play at all. It is that simple. I don't think it will help the smaller corps grow and make it an even playing field. And I do think a corps like Reading who has managed to work an amazing winning formula would continue that same formula and everyone else would still be trying to play catch-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 John had some good points but I read good bit of snark in "what 800 people at the Alumni Spectular" and other posts that sounded like DCA would do better by cutting this dead weight. Unfortunately a lot of what he posted is true and people don't want to hear it. The Alumni Spectacular does not bring in more people than DCA prelims or finals, despite the proclaimed love of the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Unfortunately a lot of what he posted is true and people don't want to hear it. The Alumni Spectacular does not bring in more people than DCA prelims or finals, despite the proclaimed love of the show. I respectfully beg to disagree. Many participants in the Alumni Spectacular (many of whom also bring along their spouses, friends or significant others) also BUY tickets to DCA prelims and finals. Some of these would most certainly have opted not to come were they not performing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The Alumni Spectacular does not bring in more people than DCA prelims or finals, despite the proclaimed love of the show. maybe,...........but the alumni show does bring in more people to prelims and finals,.........DCA full well knows this, and is the main reason for having the alumni show in the first place,......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I respectfully beg to disagree. Many participants in the Alumni Spectacular (many of whom also bring along their spouses, friends or significant others) also BUY tickets to DCA prelims and finals. Some of these would most certainly have opted not to come were they not performing. My comment was properly worded. It does not attract a larger audience than the other two was how I should have said it. Unfortunately a lot of alumni corps participants don't stay for prelims and finasls though. I know when I was with Bridgemen we practiced all afternoon Saturday as soon as the buses arrived, had a "last dinner together as a corps" after practice ended and the buses left right after the alumni spectacular was done. I drove for that reason. So did others, but not the majority of the corps. I know from hearing members of Sky Alum and Cabs Alum that many of them left right afterwards as well. It isn't a one hand is washing the other sadly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 My comment was properly worded. It does not attract a larger audience than the other two was how I should have said it. Unfortunately a lot of alumni corps participants don't stay for prelims and finasls though. I know when I was with Bridgemen we practiced all afternoon Saturday as soon as the buses arrived, had a "last dinner together as a corps" after practice ended and the buses left right after the alumni spectacular was done. I drove for that reason. So did others, but not the majority of the corps. I know from hearing members of Sky Alum and Cabs Alum that many of them left right afterwards as well. It isn't a one hand is washing the other sadly. understood,....but IIRC their are certain requirements on room nights, etc. that the alumni corps must meet in order to perform and receive a performance stipend,........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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