Kamarag Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Thank you for your thoughts, John. I don't believe a gym will cut it. Most only have 1000-1500 seats per side, maybe less. It would be difficult to generate enough revenue from a crowd that small to cover the cost of busing in the performers. Gyms that have 4,000-6,000 per side are sometimes arenas, with hockey size floor space. In any case, what we have to offer needs to be a spectacle equal to comparable acts already out there. Yes, that will require lighting effects and other aspects we don't present now. I contend, limiting the product to brass, percussion, and color guard is adequate. I see no need to add in woodwinds, guitars, etc. Well, WGI units and thousands of school and independent guards and drumlines seem to have no problems with getting transport. Also, the second you put limits on equipment, your activity is dead with a capital D. Those days are past, and that ship has sailed. Good riddance. Your only hope of a successful indoor activity is to do it in a way similar to WGI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2B or not 2B Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Thank you for your thoughts, John. I don't believe a gym will cut it. Most only have 1000-1500 seats per side, maybe less. It would be difficult to generate enough revenue from a crowd that small to cover the cost of busing in the performers. Gyms that have 4,000-6,000 per side are sometimes arenas, with hockey size floor space. In any case, what we have to offer needs to be a spectacle equal to comparable acts already out there. Yes, that will require lighting effects and other aspects we don't present now. I contend, limiting the product to brass, percussion, and color guard is adequate. I see no need to add in woodwinds, guitars, etc. Nor Amps and mikes for solos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Well, we have to have SOME limits, no? I don't want to even consider fiddlers and ice skaters! It probably should be a defined product that can catch on for what it is. I believe brass and percussion only can be an excellent source of sound. It has been for so many years. Discussions like this are more critical than most will admit. I hope it continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Well, we have to have SOME limits, no? I don't want to even consider fiddlers and ice skaters! It probably should be a defined product that can catch on for what it is. I believe brass and percussion only can be an excellent source of sound. It has been for so many years. Discussions like this are more critical than most will admit. I hope it continues. fred your right about the limits. but that is our way of thinking. like we have already admitted our time has passed. it's up to the youger ones to carry on. and if it dies that will be because there was no saving it. look there just isn't enough money to generate corps to buy equipment , get the buses, pay the instructors. and on top of that this economy will be with us for years. people will not have the money to do it. as time goes on money will get tighter for people. it's either put food on the table or have fun marching. what do you think is going to be where people put their money. the economy hasn't even been talked about and that's a big thing. in any case what ever happens it will not affect me. i have other interest's. but i hate to see the thing go away. and when john talks about the diehards he dosen't realize it's him and people like him. not us. so it's up to them to figure this thing out. let them amp and synth and put in the woodwinds. we're done anyways. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) Don, you are correct. It's not our game anymore. But, it was GREAT (for us) while it lasted! The rotten economy is a major impediment. Just tonight, I had dinner with a few drum corps pals. We came to the conclusion, what we knew, what we enjoyed, etc. can be no more. You know, today's members pay an annual dues. I never did. As a matter of fact, just because I traveled 40 miles to be a Buccaneer, the corps actually gave me gas money now and then! Yes, things have changed! Edited January 6, 2013 by Fred Windish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2B or not 2B Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) Don, you are correct. It's not our game anymore. But, it was GREAT (for us) while it lasted! The rotten economy is a major impediment. Just tonight, I had dinner with a few drum corps pals. We came to the conclusion, what we knew, what we enjoyed, etc. can be no more. You know, today's members pay an annual dues. I never did. As a matter of fact, just because I traveled 40 miles to be a Buccaneer, the corps actually gave me gas money now and then! Yes, things have changed! Yes the Economy is going to play a big part of things for BOTH Corps and Fans. Look at all the Bowls that have just about finished. (Yes I kow there are too many). But did you see ALL THOSE EMPTY SEATS!!!!. And I do not mean just the Small or New Bowls. I don't tink ANY were sold Out. Not even ROSE, Cotton, Fiesta, Orange. (NASCAR also. Lot's of Empty Seats) People have to deside: FOOD. Mortage(Rent), Meds, Doctors, ETC. BEFORE a 30 to 50 Dollar Drum Corps Ticket. (+ in many times the Hotel & Food) (Oh and not only do Corps members have DUES. They have TOUR Fees, and in some case's DCI a member may even have a Uniform Rental and more to pay.) Edited January 6, 2013 by 2B or not 2B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Yes the Economy is going to play a big part of things for BOTH Corps and Fans. Look at all the Bowls that have just about finished. (Yes I kow there are too many). But did you see ALL THOSE EMPTY SEATS!!!!. And I do not mean just the Small or New Bowls. I don't tink ANY were sold Out. Not even ROSE, Cotton, Fiesta, Orange. (NASCAR also. Lot's of Empty Seats) People have to deside: FOOD. Mortage(Rent), Meds, Doctors, ETC. BEFORE a 30 to 50 Dollar Drum Corps Ticket. (+ in many time Hotel & Food) (Oh and not only do Corps members have DUES. They have TOUR Fees, and in some case's DCI a member may even have a Uniform Rental and more to pay.) that's pretty much it. money is going to be a big deal. and all those that don't see it have a very rude awakening. as fred said what we did in our time was great. but the pressures on society are taking it's tolls. even pro football is having a hard time attracting fans to the stadiums. this year was the lowest attendance in years. and even they are trying to figure out what to do. so what do you think will happen to an obscure activity like drum corps? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Unfortunately, if there is some remnent of corps still alive in the near future, it likely won't be what we now see as alumni corps, nor all-age field corps. The field competition model is just not sustainable. Rising costs and declining fan base have exposed the lop-sided business model of the All-age activity; which depends too heavily on fundraising, volunteer labor and member fees (as well as huge costs absorbed by members). If the activity had to survive only on what the public was willing to pay for the product, it would have died long ago. As corps exit the stage, the model will begin to break down even faster, as recent events in New York have shown. In addituion to that, when you take a look at the total $ spent each year (and add in the volunteer man-hours to produce the product), and then apply it to performance time acheived and the number of participants served, it's a pretty incredible expence to have this activity. The activity hangs on only due to the determination, hard work and a whole lot of sacrifice, by a relatively small number of participants, who come back year after year. I give them their props, whole-heartedly. But, they won't long be able to fight back the incredible challenges of economics which are working against this model. DCI will survive by melding in with the marching band activity; benefiting from their larger base and built-in parent following; eventually becoming , simply, summer band. Not saying I like it; just think that's the way it is. If there is to be a remnent of drum corps; I think there are two likely types that will survive. A smaller alumni-style group doing parades and passing on the tradition of drums and bugles , much like the fife and drum corps we have today. Each generation bringing in enough of their own children and grandchildren to maintain a local corps that keeps the tradition alive. As long as there are parades to perform in, this type of group could be sustained, without a lot of cost, nor unreasonable effort. I think that there will also be a more progressive, flexible and local type of group that keeps some type of brass and percussion performance activity alive (if not strictly drums and bugles). But that group must find a performance style and business model sustainable in future markets. one small problem with the above. DCI HAS been going the summer band route for a while now....and we keep seeing corps fold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Hanover Lancers are definitely on that list. I'm pretty sure the only reason the Caballeros Alumni continue to play "Cherry Pink" (and they don't play it every year) is because a whole bunch of fans request that they do so. "Back by popular demand." Nothing wrong with playing what the audience wants to hear. true. and they get a GREAT reaction everywhere they go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Thank you for your thoughts, John. I don't believe a gym will cut it. Most only have 1000-1500 seats per side, maybe less. It would be difficult to generate enough revenue from a crowd that small to cover the cost of busing in the performers. Gyms that have 4,000-6,000 per side are sometimes arenas, with hockey size floor space. In any case, what we have to offer needs to be a spectacle equal to comparable acts already out there. Yes, that will require lighting effects and other aspects we don't present now. I contend, limiting the product to brass, percussion, and color guard is adequate. I see no need to add in woodwinds, guitars, etc. costs are going to be too high to get bigger sized rooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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