TESB Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) It's funny... because I really enjoy all those shows you listed that you did not like... except for 2005... and the only thing I didn't like was the narration. Yowza! They played some great music that year. And 03 I really love. And I don't get the hate for 02. There is a lot of hate for that year in general... but I actually enjoy that show quite a bit. Not their best offering for sure... but I was entertained. We are obviously just entertained by different things. I just wish they could figure out how to program shows to entertain everyone. And entertain the masses. Because they are not reaching the masses right now. And you blue kool aid peeps need to come out of denial with this one. They are not appealing to the masses anymore. Maybe it's really a regional thing. Just regional tastes.. you west coast kool kids sure do have your own tastes... but the majority of drum corps happens east of the Rockies. But still.. I'd say there is a difference in crowd reaction between SCV and BD in west coast shows. Well I suppose I've always been in the school of thought that good design = good entertainment. I never been more entertained than when watching the blue devils, except yowza and pleeease be theeeerrereeaa. When people say 'It was designed very well, but I wasn't entertained' for me that just makes no sense. One reason why I thought the standings from the last few years were justified was the design came off much more thoughtful the higher you went in placement. I will concede that one aspect of blue devils design is that breaks between movements are somewhat rare and only happen once or twice so they all sort of blend together and they generally don't leave room for clapping. Even in California the brass stabs between the end of Laura and the trumpet solo were met with silence in 2010, but that doesn't mean the Laura balled sucked or made no sense or wasn't entertaining, it just wasn't a "resolving chooooord, band horns down, woooooo!" moment where everyone knew and felt that here is when you clap. That usually doesn't happen in BD shows like it would in, say, Crown or Cadets shows. To me, that doesn't mean they're not entertaining. And I would say one would be backing themselves into a very narrow corner to define entertainment (objectively) by resolving chords and opportunities to go nuts, or crowd reaction for that matter (subjectively there's so much more). How a crowd reacts in any part of the country doesn't really dictate how entertaining a show can be because there are sooooo many other variables. the whole point of that one post wasn't to take a jab at people who don't find bd entertaining (anymore. gee, weren't we all just the biggest BD fans at one point?), rather to point out that premises which are based on crowd reaction can be invalid because both golf clap and cray cray audiences exist for the Blue devils. Also, someone said "but bd used to do jazz shows all the way through, hey wha happen?" or something like that. just the last decade: 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010. Those were pretty much jazz shows all the way through, maybe one movement isn't exclusively jazz. 2011 was super square poppy jazz, but it's probably more just pop. 2006, 2007, 2008, 2012 had all kinds of jazz! though not 100%. Edited March 30, 2013 by TESB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) It's funny... because I really enjoy all those shows you listed that you did not like... except for 2005... and the only thing I didn't like was the narration. Yowza! They played some great music that year. And 03 I really love. And I don't get the hate for 02. There is a lot of hate for that year in general... but I actually enjoy that show quite a bit. Not their best offering for sure... but I was entertained. We are obviously just entertained by different things. I just wish they could figure out how to program shows to entertain everyone. And entertain the masses. Because they are not reaching the masses right now. And you blue kool aid peeps need to come out of denial with this one. They are not appealing to the masses anymore. Maybe it's really a regional thing. Just regional tastes.. you west coast kool kids sure do have your own tastes... but the majority of drum corps happens east of the Rockies. But still.. I'd say there is a difference in crowd reaction between SCV and BD in west coast shows. . The question of mass approval and getting the crowds on their feet can be answered in a point I have previously made involving 2010. As the season wore on, the crowd was emotionally behind Bluecoats in their march towards finals (more, IMO, then they were towards the Cavaliers). But when the Bluecoats faded slightly at Indy, the crowd shifted dramatically to the Cavies, IMO, as if to say "the Cavies are now the guys that have the best shot at unhinging the Devs and we're going to pull them across the finish line" like we did PR. That has, again IMO, as much to do with mass approval and reaction than the crowd's being entertained or reaction to BD's show and performance on it's face. Some will suggest all of that ABBD stuff is minor, I will suggest that it is substantial and has a momentum of it's own. In short, despite what's said on DCP, the Devs will not enjoy the level of fan reaction that other top contenders enjoy until they drop out of the top three for several years and several other corps are champions. If you choose not to call that ABBD, call it "spreading the wealth" or "we're sick of here we go again". NOTE: BTW, I wish the outcome in 08 would have been different, but PR was off the charts good and deserved it. Edited March 30, 2013 by Plan9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) Some will suggest all of that ABBD stuff is minor, I will suggest that it is substantial and has a momentum of it's own. In short, despite what's said on DCP, the Devs will not enjoy the level of fan reaction that other top contenders enjoy until they drop out of the top three for several years and several other corps are champions. If you choose not to call that ABBD, call it "spreading the wealth" or "we're sick of here we go again". Lol things never change here. BD Fans: "Lots of fans find BD entertaining; they just choose not to show it by standing up and applauding. Those who comment on bad design or lack of audience engagement or no entertainment are simply ABBD drones. They're choosing not to be entertained." Rest of DCP : "BD's musical arrangements are little more than sound effect tracks to their visual presentation. The melody and continuity have been replaced by beep-bop-boops; the original pieces are virtually unrecognizable. I appreciate their excellence but their design only engages the judges. I miss when BD played recognizable music and melodic phrases longer than 16 counts." BD Fans: Complain they get no respect. And proceed to dis-respect every other top corps. Eventually they just call you a hater. Rest of DCP: Complain they're not really ABBD. They actually like BD -- just not their recent design trends. Edited March 31, 2013 by corpsband 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphz Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 So I am curious what the ratio of the Sebesky/ Brenzel versions is going to be? I am thoroughly excited about this and am very curious to see what all they come up with due to the traditions/ legacy of the corps and the piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 . The question of mass approval and getting the crowds on their feet can be answered in a point I have previously made involving 2010. As the season wore on, the crowd was emotionally behind Bluecoats in their march towards finals (more, IMO, then they were towards the Cavaliers). But when the Bluecoats faded slightly at Indy, the crowd shifted dramatically to the Cavies, IMO, as if to say "the Cavies are now the guys that have the best shot at unhinging the Devs and we're going to pull them across the finish line" like we did PR. That has, again IMO, as much to do with mass approval and reaction than the crowd's being entertained or reaction to BD's show and performance on it's face. Some will suggest all of that ABBD stuff is minor, I will suggest that it is substantial and has a momentum of it's own. In short, despite what's said on DCP, the Devs will not enjoy the level of fan reaction that other top contenders enjoy until they drop out of the top three for several years and several other corps are champions. If you choose not to call that ABBD, call it "spreading the wealth" or "we're sick of here we go again". NOTE: BTW, I wish the outcome in 08 would have been different, but PR was off the charts good and deserved it. Come on. You say that a tepid crowd reaction to a BD performance doesn't necessarily mean that they dislike the show, but you're able to gauge the emotional support a crowd has for a particular corps to beat the Blue Devils?? I guess we all see what we want to see. And are you suggesting that the crowd won PR's championship for them back in '08? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Whatever yo. Everyone wants BD to lose.. I'll concede to the "fact." The main reason people don't like them is because they don't want them to win. We all hate BD. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Aces Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Also, someone said "but bd used to do jazz shows all the way through, hey wha happen?" or something like that. just the last decade: 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010. Those were pretty much jazz shows all the way through, maybe one movement isn't exclusively jazz. 2011 was super square poppy jazz, but it's probably more just pop. 2006, 2007, 2008, 2012 had all kinds of jazz! though not 100%. I believe I was the one who made the comment, and again, I suspect that I'm not the only one who shares the sentiment. I wasn't trying to say that bd NEVER plays jazz anymore. Certainly there have been years within the last decade where they have done all jazz shows, and those are the ones that I have found more entertaining, since they remind me of why I liked them in the first place. And even in the shows that haven't been all jazz recently, yes, there has been SOME jazz to be found somewhere in the shows. However, there is no way that one can honestly compare their recent trend of shows like 2007, 2008, 2010, and 2012 to any show of theirs from 1997 or earlier and say that they are even remotely similar. For me, I feel the trend for their "strange" shows (again there have been years that are exceptions) started in 1998 - the West Side Story/Romeo and Juliet show. IMHO, instead of sticking to the style that they themselves created, had so much success with, and made many people become fans of theirs, the design team now would rather show everyone how clever they can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Whatever yo. Everyone wants BD to lose.. I'll concede to the "fact." The main reason people don't like them is because they don't want them to win. We all hate BD. See.....now don't you feel better? :rolleyes:/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Any year before that, YES. Their shows were fantastic, but 1994 was the beginning of the style of arranging that they have become known around the country for. Funny you should mention this. During the day at BD's DCI prelims rehearsal site in the light rain....this started to hit me. It was like...'something is different about the way this show is constructed'. At the time I didn't think much of it....but it became obvious this was a turning point in terms of an arranging style for them. Still...with the choppiness...this show rocked the house.....I miss that. BTW...I met Mike Moxley for the first time at said rehearsal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 This is perhaps the center of gravity for BD angst of recent years. And just like any entertainment group or person that evolves, they face comparison to themselves from their past, in both material and style. This is made even more acute in DC in that so much is built on tradition and memories of FMM's that want to connect to their glory days (meant in the best sense) and linking what is on the field today with great corps and moments from that past. In fact, the past is perhaps 50% or more of what is discussed on DCP, so that would be no surprise. However, for some corps, their past can become a swamp of expectation and drive their show designs to a point of redundancy and boredom. I think I mentioned this before, but back in 1972 Ricky Nelson (I know, I'm dating myself) played an oldies show in Madison Square Garden where he and his band played several of his hits and then played "Honky Tonk Woman" by the Stones with his, then, country sound. The fans literally booed him off the stage. He then wrote his hit "Garden Party" in which he sang...."You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself".....and, "If you ever play a Garden Party, I wish you a lot of luck...But if memories are all I sang, then I'd rather drive a truck". I don't want to here 70's, 80's or 90's BD. I want to hear them play material in a way that generates excitement. How come so many other top corps have been able to maintain an identity, provide a modern update and yet still excite crowds? They are basically a refreshed modern version of their corps from the past. If BD has all the answers....why can't BD generate huge ex-tactic crowd reactions (outside their home state of coarse)? They don't want to? If that's the case...sad indeed...especially for the members...because I don't remember to many numbers from when I marched...but I remember performing for thousands of fans absolutely digging everything we dished out..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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