MikeD Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 well, mine's based in reality :tongue:/>/> ...at least in some universe! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I have not been a BD fan as of late because I have been severely disappointed by their song selection and most importantly presentation. I don't care how many shows they have won...I would support them a 100% if they would just give in a bit and arrange and play one for the majority of the fans. Ditto....would love to have that feeling back about them as well..... btw BD fans/supporters....BD was my favorite corps for the longest time (had a gold plated picture frame with a picture of the BD logo handing over my bed for years). I am ready to be their biggest fan again...but..they seem to be so deeply intrenched in self-interest and pleasing the judges....that I doubt this tenured staff/group will ever be able to 'Put one on' like they use to. I didn't change...they did... This is perhaps the center of gravity for BD angst of recent years. And just like any entertainment group or person that evolves, they face comparison to themselves from their past, in both material and style. This is made even more acute in DC in that so much is built on tradition and memories of FMM's that want to connect to their glory days (meant in the best sense) and linking what is on the field today with great corps and moments from that past. In fact, the past is perhaps 50% or more of what is discussed on DCP, so that would be no surprise. However, for some corps, their past can become a swamp of expectation and drive their show designs to a point of redundancy and boredom. I think I mentioned this before, but back in 1972 Ricky Nelson (I know, I'm dating myself) played an oldies show in Madison Square Garden where he and his band played several of his hits and then played "Honky Tonk Woman" by the Stones with his, then, country sound. The fans literally booed him off the stage. He then wrote his hit "Garden Party" in which he sang...."You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself".....and, "If you ever play a Garden Party, I wish you a lot of luck...But if memories are all I sang, then I'd rather drive a truck". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TESB Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 What's not anecdotal and is fairly empirical are videos of Denver, Riverside, Stockton, Walnut, etc from 2010 and 2012 where there is a more than healthy crowd response than later season shows. When I watched these for the first time, it was really bizarre because usually what I listen to or watch are those later season recordings, most often finals. The major difference is the presence of the crowd and when a crowd can get past a self imposed, manufactured stigma of the design of these shows (there's plenty of reason to love and enjoy these shows, I'm telling you, it's all in your heads that the design is somehow deficient), you get the sort of energy in those videos from the people in the stands that the, actually very well designed, effective moments are supposed to elicit from crowds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 1364567965[/url]' post='3254046']This is perhaps the center of gravity for BD angst of recent years. And just like any entertainment group or person that evolves, they face comparison to themselves from their past, in both material and style. This is made even more acute in DC in that so much is built on tradition and memories of FMM's that want to connect to their glory days (meant in the best sense) and linking what is on the field today with great corps and moments from that past. In fact, the past is perhaps 50% or more of what is discussed on DCP, so that would be no surprise. However, for some corps, their past can become a swamp of expectation and drive their show designs to a point of redundancy and boredom. I think I mentioned this before, but back in 1972 Ricky Nelson (I know, I'm dating myself) played an oldies show in Madison Square Garden where he and his band played several of his hits and then played "Honky Tonk Woman" by the Stones with his, then, country sound. The fans literally booed him off the stage. He then wrote his hit "Garden Party" in which he sang...."You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself".....and, "If you ever play a Garden Party, I wish you a lot of luck...But if memories are all I sang, then I'd rather drive a truck". Thank you for that Plan 9. I totally agree with you. It's like asking Zappa to play Dynamo Hum when he brings the Enemble Modern to a concert hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 ...at least in some universe! :tongue:/> not yours :tongue:/> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 What's not anecdotal and is fairly empirical are videos of Denver, Riverside, Stockton, Walnut, etc from 2010 and 2012 where there is a more than healthy crowd response than later season shows. When I watched these for the first time, it was really bizarre because usually what I listen to or watch are those later season recordings, most often finals. The major difference is the presence of the crowd and when a crowd can get past a self imposed, manufactured stigma of the design of these shows (there's plenty of reason to love and enjoy these shows, I'm telling you, it's all in your heads that the design is somehow deficient), you get the sort of energy in those videos from the people in the stands that the, actually very well designed, effective moments are supposed to elicit from crowds. it's not deficient in design. it's just not appealing to many. there's a difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Aces Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 (edited) What's not anecdotal and is fairly empirical are videos of Denver, Riverside, Stockton, Walnut, etc from 2010 and 2012 where there is a more than healthy crowd response than later season shows. When I watched these for the first time, it was really bizarre because usually what I listen to or watch are those later season recordings, most often finals. The major difference is the presence of the crowd and when a crowd can get past a self imposed, manufactured stigma of the design of these shows (there's plenty of reason to love and enjoy these shows, I'm telling you, it's all in your heads that the design is somehow deficient), you get the sort of energy in those videos from the people in the stands that the, actually very well designed, effective moments are supposed to elicit from crowds. I'm not so sure that anyone ever said the design of BD shows of late is deficient (although I could be wrong). It is very evident that the design staff puts together well thought out programs year after year, and the corps members execute those shows incredibly well. I used to be the biggest BD fan around, but for me (and I suspect many others as well), the issue with them is they were very good for a very long time at playing an entire show filled with jazz rep. That is their history and the style that they created for themselves. Now they have essentially abandoned this style that endeared them for so long to so many fans, and decided to go off into some sort of cerebral direction with their shows. I've mentioned before in other threads that if Phantom all of sudden decided to do pop music shows from now on, there probably would be a large segment of their fan base that would be upset too, no matter how many championships they might win with that style. Edited March 29, 2013 by Quad Aces 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Aces Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 (edited) . Edited March 29, 2013 by Quad Aces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 it's not deficient in design. it's just not appealing to many. there's a difference An old point of contention between us Jeff.....I'm not sure you have license to use "many" here. Use "some" for sure....but "not appealing to many" is a leap at best and utterly unprovable. Then once you have your group of the "displeased" then you need to parse out the homers, the ABBDer's and haters (or disliker's). Who is able to do that? No one on these boards. Suffice to say that we understand you are one of the "I don't hate BD...I just can't stand what they're doing recently" crowd. And I, for one, believe that none of those other things impacts you. But, by extension, including an army of exactly like-minded fans to bolster your position, doesn't wash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I guarantee you that if BD went out and selected, arranged and presented/performed a show geared toward entertaining and exciting the fans they would get great crowd reactions no matter where they performed. Going back a ways...the 1994 Blue Devils was a corps that everyone wanted to see. They had created great buzz in the activity all summer long. They received great crowd reactions during their east coast tour. Why? Because they had selected, arranged and presented/performed a kick A$# show....period. Finals 1994 was in Massachusetts (EAST COAST) and guess what....people loved them. If you and others want to keep towing this...'Everyone is against BD because they win all the time' line have fun....but the reality is fans 'are' tired of BD winning....reasons why....not your reasons.....reasons are because BD is winning with weird, overly artistic, flat material and arrangements. Performance....stellar....material and arrangements....awful.... I'm the exception for 1994. Any year before that, YES. Their shows were fantastic, but 1994 was the beginning of the style of arranging that they have become known around the country for. I do agree with your post though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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