jasgre2000 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) I guarantee you that if BD went out and selected, arranged and presented/performed a show geared toward entertaining and exciting the fans they would get great crowd reactions no matter where they performed. Going back a ways...the 1994 Blue Devils was a corps that everyone wanted to see. They had created great buzz in the activity all summer long. They received great crowd reactions during their east coast tour. Why? Because they had selected, arranged and presented/performed a kick A$# show....period. Finals 1994 was in Massachusetts (EAST COAST) and guess what....people loved them. If you and others want to keep towing this...'Everyone is against BD because they win all the time' line have fun....but the reality is fans 'are' tired of BD winning....reasons why....not your reasons.....reasons are because BD is winning with weird, overly artistic, flat material and arrangements. Performance....stellar....material and arrangements....awful.... I think it would be a travesty if we lost the unique brilliance of the Blue Devils. I understand that some hate them, some don't like them, and that they aren't "crowd pleasers". I would have to say that I dislike more fo their shows than I like (though I loved their 2012 show). But ... what is with people wanting to force everyone into a little square box? I think what they are doing is edgy and brilliant. Losing innovation in drum corps would lead to the death of DCI quicker than anything the Blue Devils are doing. Don't like it? Then listen to someone else until you do like it. The Blue Devils are GOOD for drum corps. Variety is GOOD for drum corps. If their style isn't selling, it will change ... eventually. But you don't grow by rejecting innovation. So dislike them all you want, but don't try to force your tastes on everyone else. Edited April 1, 2013 by jasgre2000 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) PLan old boy.....using many is not a stretch by any means. I mean it's been a beaten horse for what 5 years now? yes you have ABBDers, though not as many as you think. far often the blue kool aiders lump in MANY people who loved BD for years that just do not like the show into the hater category. Look at reactions around the country. It's not nearly as ABBD as you think. hell people are still trying to pin the reaction for Phantoms win in 08 solely on ABBD. It was some ABBD yes, but an overwhelming majority was because....gasp...a show beloved by MANY won. A show that reached people on all levels. Easily the most popular championship production in the last decade. sorry to kill your conclusion, but there's MANY more instances of proof for the view I gave than yours. But then again, anyoen that doesnt like BD has been insulted by you in various ways over the years I'm bothered by the use of "many" too. It is not provable at all. And even if it was, it is used here as a tool to try to convince people to reject what they are doing and to suggest what they are doing is bad for Drum Crops ... or is somehow inauthentic or not worthy or praise. It is being used to try to stifle innovation and variety. Not everything has to fit your own subjective definition of "good". It's a classic use of the argumentum ad populum fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum The fact that "many" believe something does not make it true. Edited April 1, 2013 by jasgre2000 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Even in California the brass stabs between the end of Laura and the trumpet solo were met with silence in 2010, but that doesn't mean the Laura balled sucked or made no sense or wasn't entertaining, it just wasn't a "resolving chooooord, band horns down, woooooo!" moment where everyone knew and felt that here is when you clap. That usually doesn't happen in BD shows like it would in, say, Crown or Cadets shows. To me, that doesn't mean they're not entertaining. And I would say one would be backing themselves into a very narrow corner to define entertainment (objectively) by resolving chords and opportunities to go nuts, or crowd reaction for that matter (subjectively there's so much more). How a crowd reacts in any part of the country doesn't really dictate how entertaining a show can be because there are sooooo many other variables. the whole point of that one post wasn't to take a jab at people who don't find bd entertaining (anymore. gee, weren't we all just the biggest BD fans at one point?), rather to point out that premises which are based on crowd reaction can be invalid because both golf clap and cray cray audiences exist for the Blue devils. Bingo! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) I don't want to here 70's, 80's or 90's BD. I want to hear them play material in a way that generates excitement. How come so many other top corps have been able to maintain an identity, provide a modern update and yet still excite crowds? They are basically a refreshed modern version of their corps from the past. If BD has all the answers....why can't BD generate huge ex-tactic crowd reactions (outside their home state of coarse)? They don't want to? If that's the case...sad indeed...especially for the members...because I don't remember to many numbers from when I marched...but I remember performing for thousands of fans absolutely digging everything we dished out..... I don't understand why crowd excitement should be the conclusive measure of whether a corps is good or not. The volume and type of chord a show ends with is much more indicative of how a crowd will react than whether what they did was "good" or not. I think there is much more to drum corps then ending a show with a company front, marching in half time, and playing at a triple-forte. Will that get a big crowd reaction? Sure ... but we can be more creative than that, can't we? Edited April 1, 2013 by jasgre2000 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedawn Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Eh, BD is basically just doing their own activity, which is more "art for art's sake" than what most people think of as "drum corps." The "problem" is that DCI rewards their excellence in this other activity on the drum corps sheets, creating some animosity among folks who want to see company fronts, major chords, etc. No matter what, it's all just marching band. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I'm bothered by the use of "many" too. It is not provable at all. And even if it was, it is used here as a tool to try to convince people to reject what they are doing and to suggest what they are doing is bad for Drum Crops ... or is somehow inauthentic or not worthy or praise. It is being used to try to stifle innovation and variety. Not everything has to fit your own subjective definition of "good". It's a classic use of the argumentum ad populum fallacy: http://en.wikipedia....ntum_ad_populum The fact that "many" believe something does not make it true. Or..........."the majority is always wrong!" :tongue:/> 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TESB Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) BD has company fronts, major chords, melody and music which last longer than 16 counts. Even given a charitable interpretation to the belief that their musical phrases are short, it's really not a stretch at all to say they play music, they play good music, there is melody, extended musical phrases, all that. No, they don't play music like everyone else (as if 'everyone else' is a definitive thing anyway), but if boops beeps and bops are enough to set people off, Crown's Moren opener and other parts of that show had a lot of that. Just taking 2012, the ONLY part where it really is random beeboobop quotes, which we all apparently dread, is the mingus stuff to the fanfare thing. Before and after that: apollo 13 theme is played pretty straight down and occupies a good half of the opener, the bird and bela stuff is very similar to their closer in '91 and is played with melody, impact, and effect, the satie variations is again taken almost exactly as BS&T did, the jazzy jazz movement is pretty much Peppy and George sprinkled with some Dr. Bones and just in case you didn't notice, some of the movements ended with a variation on the John Adams thing, this one included, and the closer with it's odd intervalic jumps are taken right from Thomas Ades' Tevot. Yeah it's not as popular or recognizable as Fanfare for the Common Man or, idk, Jingle Bells or Nessun Dorma, but it's still gets playtime in my head over and over just like the others. One is really bending over backwards to assert that BD plays, even mostly, snippets and beepadaboopees. Edited April 1, 2013 by TESB 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 BD has company fronts, Where? I've spent a lot of time watching shows, and I can not recall many examples if any of BD doing company fronts. Not saying you're wrong, just looking for examples. As usual, this whole argument breaks down into different strokes for different folks. If people like what BD is putting down, cool. If not, there are 20 or so other corps out there putting out shows to enjoy. Everyone gets different opinions about what works and what doesn't in these summer marching band shows. Like what you like, don't like what you don't, but let other people have their own opinions as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TESB Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Where? I've spent a lot of time watching shows, and I can not recall many examples if any of BD doing company fronts. Not saying you're wrong, just looking for examples. As usual, this whole argument breaks down into different strokes for different folks. If people like what BD is putting down, cool. If not, there are 20 or so other corps out there putting out shows to enjoy. Everyone gets different opinions about what works and what doesn't in these summer marching band shows. Like what you like, don't like what you don't, but let other people have their own opinions as well. Yeah it's definitely not one of their "things" and maybe I myself am bending over backwards to say BD has company fronts, but in 2012 after the drum break, 2010 (sorta) just before the end of their show, it basically served the roll of being a company front to end the show, it was just a large arc, 2009 started the show with a company front with rotating files and blocks dissolving it right to left, 2008 had a company front that dissolved into the stick man (I think), 2007 had actually quite a few and more if you count the double arc wings. But for sure, the contexts of their CFs usually aren't the same as with other corps'. Edited April 1, 2013 by TESB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 <snip> But for sure, the contexts of their CFs usually aren't the same as with other corps'. Ha.. that's a good way to describe how I feel about their visual program. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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