Bridgeport

[VOReason]

Not so sure about the "depth of the program" statement. Color guard may be the difference there. Musically i would say programs are comparable. Cabs show still not complete either.

The Cabs show IS complete in the sense that they do march, play and spin from beginning to end. The same apparently cannnot be said of C2. From what I have heard, and seen in a short cell video of what C2 has completed, perhaps the staff designed the program to be to demanding to be completed on time with a weekend centric schedule. And perhaps the staff is comfortable with using the first 2/3's of the season as a critiqued dress rehersal and rise quickly in the final 2-4 weeks based on the strength of the program, but how fair is this to the circuit...not to mention the paying customers? And is this the "Cadet experience" that these kids bought into? But make no mistake...if the closer is anywhere near to what they have completed so far, this show will be very formidable indeed by championship weekend.

[Kyle B]

Cadets penalty was for being under time. From what I gather, the drill they got had to be re-written.

Cabs penalty...I'm not sure about. This time the honor guard turned pretty early and there wasn't a guard member who walked in front of them. My only other guess is someone going over the front sideline outside the pit box?

[irishbugle]

And perhaps the staff is comfortable with using the first 2/3's of the season as a critiqued dress rehersal and rise quickly in the final 2-4 weeks based on the strength of the program, but how fair is this to the circuit...not to mention the paying customers? And is this the "Cadet experience" that these kids bought into? But make no mistake...if the closer is anywhere near to what they have completed so far, this show will be very formidable indeed by championship weekend.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this become a dramatic storyline customers follow throughout the year. I understand and support the argument being made but as a paying customer myself it almost makes me want to come back multiple times throughout the year to see C2's progression vs seeing a program in Wildwood beginning to end and saying "ok, I'll see it again in September". Instead of only getting two tickets out of me you might get 3 or more.

As for what the kids bought into... I think if they come away with a win in September than that's exactly what the kids bought into. How they got there won't matter. Honestly for a second year program if they finish in top 3 that's a win right there.

Edited June 30, 2013 by irishbugle

[burdettsky]

For the post that said, how fair is this to the paying customer about Cadets2, who cares. I knew they weren't finished, but up until the point of Readings performance, I thought they stole the show somewhat. I knew they weren't finished, and I think they got the paying customer to consider going to a show between now and Scranton to see them again and see what they've done. Everybody talks about paying customer and incomplete shows, and I think it's a non-argument.

Example, we all go out to eat. Sometimes, we are unsatisfied with our meals. "I thought that would've been tastier" or other comments. Only ate 2/3 of the chicken parmesan. That doesn't mean you get to pay 2/3 of the price. Let the buyer beware. If you are offended that these corps, or should I say Cadets 2, singled you out to give you a poor experience by doing an unfinished show, then don't go.

With that said, as much as I enjoyed Cadets 2, they were sort of a mess visually. Until that cleans up, the catching up will be slow, as it has to be affecting how they play as well. But they are 10 times more prepared than last year in Clifton, which was 2-3 weeks later. I agreed with all placements in Bridgeport, but think the Caballeros will have to look in the rear view mirror for C2 all season. I don't know if C2 or Cabs have the horses to catch the Bucs, but I think the can get closer than whatever the spread was last year from Cabs to Bucs. It was a great show in Bridgeport. Long drive, but well worth the $5 price of admission and the pre-show 84Diner stop.

[JoeDz]

OK.... here's my point:

By looking at the "recap," we can tell what the judges are thinking concerning EVERY aspect of the show. We have much more information than we did in the past under the tick system. Given that the corps' show changes little from week to week, it's easy to understand the 2-point-per-week up creep in scores...... anything that varies from that shows growth (or "shrinkage")....it's a GREAT, fair system. In fact, I get the distinct impression that some people in here believe that they can pretty accurately fill out the recap for NEXT WEEK's show in advance......

The ONLY thing for which we have no explanation is the penalties. BITD penalties were listed in the DCN issues and sometimes even included the cause for the penalty.

When a corps like the Cabs gets a 1.0 penalty and then a 1.6 the following week, why not solve the only mystery left? Cabs will probably get a 77.0 next time out (minus penalty). Maybe to restore suspense to the announcement of scores, Fran should just announce the penalties...... "In tenth place and the DCA Northwest Champions with a perfect ZERO in penalty............."

[truman]

I was told Cabs penalty was for being under time and for a brass performer position related to front sideline...and contrary to a post above...Cabs entire show was NOT on the field last night. If Cadets2 are anything like the Cadets I know, it will be tough to "outwork" them the rest of the way. Should be an exciting season!

Edited June 30, 2013 by truman

[VOReason]

For the post that said, how fair is this to the paying customer about Cadets2, who cares. I knew they weren't finished, but up until the point of Readings performance, I thought they stole the show somewhat. I knew they weren't finished, and I think they got the paying customer to consider going to a show between now and Scranton to see them again and see what they've done. Everybody talks about paying customer and incomplete shows, and I think it's a non-argument.Example, we all go out to eat. Sometimes, we are unsatisfied with our meals. "I thought that would've been tastier" or other comments. Only ate 2/3 of the chicken parmesan. That doesn't mean you get to pay 2/3 of the price. Let the buyer beware. If you are offended that these corps, or should I say Cadets 2, singled you out to give you a poor experience by doing an unfinished show, then don't go.

With that said, as much as I enjoyed Cadets 2, they were sort of a mess visually. Until that cleans up, the catching up will be slow, as it has to be affecting how they play as well. But they are 10 times more prepared than last year in Clifton, which was 2-3 weeks later. I agreed with all placements in Bridgeport, but think the Caballeros will have to look in the rear view mirror for C2 all season. I don't know if C2 or Cabs have the horses to catch the Bucs, but I think the can get closer than whatever the spread was last year from Cabs to Bucs. It was a great show in Bridgeport. Long drive, but well worth the $5 price of admission and the pre-show 84Diner stop.

Very interesting! In fact, perhaps DCA can us this concept as a marketing tool and require each corps to come out with only the opener completed...or perhaps the opener and maybe half the ballad, and just stand still for the remainder. The corps can then put out the rest of their programs, perhaps 30-45 seconds for each subsequent show until all corps are complete approx. 2 weeks before finals. This would really whet the appetite of Joe Fan and surely make him want to come back for more! But seriously folks...has anyone taken notice of C2's staff roster? If this staff starts in November and can't field a completed marching band show by the end of June, that is just sad.

[donincardona]

Very interesting! In fact, perhaps DCA can us this concept as a marketing tool and require each corps to come out with only the opener completed...or perhaps the opener and maybe half the ballad, and just stand still for the remainder. The corps can then put out the rest of their programs, perhaps 30-45 seconds for each subsequent show until all corps are complete approx. 2 weeks before finals. This would really whet the appetite of Joe Fan and surely make him want to come back for more! But seriously folks...has anyone taken notice of C2's staff roster? If this staff starts in November and can't field a completed marching band show by the end of June, that is just sad.

lets put it this way. you go to the movies. you pay full price for the movie. they show 2/3 rds of the movie. they tell you come back in 3 weeks to see the rest of it. you have to pay full price again to see the entire movie. do you think this is fair? well i don't. if c2 is using the sheets to craft their show then i think that is cynical. and by corps not being ready will not attract people that are not connected. but i see the apologists are out in full force. for the record back in my day i would never have gone to a show until mid july because nobody was clean until then. but our shows were complete. we did add stuff, little adjustments . if a corps got really killed they might change some of the show but it was never planned.

[Kamarag]

All shows are not equal. Much like in the culinary world, I can make a cheeseburger in ten minutes. It's good, but it's still a cheeseburger. It takes longer to create a meal. I think the same principle applies here.

And for as much as people are bashing Cadets2 for not being done, was every color guard book complete last night? If not, better throw those corps in the "screw the paying customer" pile too.

[JoeDz]

lets put it this way. you go to the movies. you pay full price for the movie. they show 2/3 rds of the movie. they tell you come back in 3 weeks to see the rest of it. you have to pay full price again to see the entire movie. do you think this is fair? well i don't.

<snip>

Movie folks are too smart to do that........... and they are not governed by time limits; so we get Godfather 1, 2; Hangover 1,2,3; Rocky XIV; you get the "picture."

But I agree that in such a shortened season (DCI is even shorter), I'd rather see a complete show in week 1 and watch the improvements along the way to finals.

I must have watched 1965 and 1966 Blessed Sacrement Golden Knights twice per weekend from Memorial Day thru September..... same show (I can hum the whole 1966 show in my head) and I never tired of it.

As for penalties, I taught in the Liberty Color Guard Circuit in the 1970s (Paterson Crusaders)...... in practice, every step my kids took I was on line and to the right of the AF just to see where we'd get a 1.0 if we hesitated or moved a step early. When you only have 62 points left from the hundred at the opening whistle, you don't want to start giving away 10 ticks at a step.

I love this sport !

Joe

PS: Go Cabs !