Allegro89 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I am in no way, shape, or form saying that last night's results in San Antonio are what we will see in August. BUT, I think some trends at the top are interesting. -- Crown seems to be reaching a plateau in performance. I'm sure they will overcome this, but will it be enough/in time? -- BD is starting to capture an essence of cleanliness and performance that is driving them forward. -- Cadets are still in the hunt. I honestly thought they would be #1 last night. -- SCV is closing the gap on the top 3. Of the top 4 I think they have the most room to grow in three weeks. With that said...... ••• How low could Crown finish if they aren't #1? ••• What do you think the top 4 will look like? Is the top 4 right now what we will see in August? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 When I first saw Crown, I thought this show had the potential to peak. They came out so strong. If they make some changes and the percussion gets their act together, they can pull it off. BD is BD. The show is cleaning up and its starting to grow on people. Myself included. Cadets are not out of this convo but I suspect they wont pull it off this year. SCV had a new ending (which I love) and are getting better. Still have some major issues with getting the drill clean. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) Vanguard's biggest weakness appears to be their GE scores. I think that'll ultimately keep them in fourth or at best third place. I'm not seeing or hearing the cleanliness BD is getting credit for, but video is not the best medium to say. Many others have said, and I agree, there were some ensemble issues mid-show for Crown last night that typically aren't there. Maybe the echo of the dome for the first time threw them off their game? Or some minor changes that hadn't had enough practice? I dunno, I have a hard time reconciling BD's scores with what I see. I enjoy their show, but the visual judges are measuring things I can't see or understand, it would seem. And I think their Music Effect should be below Vanguard's at this point. Ultimately, I think Crown could fall as low as fourth, sure. It'll depend on the changes they make as the season wraps up. Will it be like 2009 when Crown dipped to 4th in San Antonio, but then they made changes in the following two weeks that bumped their show from good to great? Or will it be like 2010 when they started incredibly strong and then each change seemed to make things worse rather than better? If they bust out this week with an awesome new ending, I think they will finish no worse than second. But if they can't find an ending that works, like in 2010, they could slide below Vanguard. Edited July 21, 2013 by skywhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 in my book SCV is a lock in fourth - great show for sure and fantastic drum line and very solid guard the other 3 are dicey - personally I see either BD or Cadets winning with Crown in 2nd due to drums but there's a lot of season left - we'll know more after Semi finals in Indy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tez Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I think it is up to the Crown staff to max out this show like Cadets and BD will do with theirs. There has been very few changes compared to the other top groups since the beginning of the season. You can only do the same thing so many times before it gets just a little stale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 To bring together a few ideas from other threads, especially RE: GE Music, the very first item on the sheet is AUDIENCE ENGAGEMENT. This was one of two major shifts in the sheets during the 2011 TOC experiments. (The other being the fact that the sheets OPENLY state "...compared to your competitors," thus opening the floodgates to discussing your competitors during critique. That's for another thread.) Audience Engagement is on BOTH SIDES of the sheet (Rep and Performers [not performance]). The sheets can be viewed here: 2012 Judging If you really think through the items on the GE Music sheet, SCV has a legit shot at #1 in that caption. They're certainly #1 in Audience Engagement. Focusing on the left side (repertoire effect): For Audio and Vis coordination, SCV has *always* been at the top in that dept, even through their darkest years. It's part of SCV Class! Interpretation? Seriously, What The Heck does that mean? So the judge is asked to interpret the membership's interpretation of the staff's interpretation of the designers' interpretations of the source? LOL, trust me, they try! IMO, this is the vast wasteland of the GE Music sheet where judges find a lot of their wiggle room. Variety of Effects. Who's beating SCV here? C'mon, really. Playing a chromatic scale is one of the easiest things to do. Multiple tonguing...good stuff there, love it! But ya know what's REALLY difficult to do? PLAY A LONG PHRASE, and keep it interesting throughout, and have every single voice heard no matter the drill set/move! How can a musical ensemble be declared "effective" if you can't even hear the tubas at ALL TIMES? How can a musical group be declared "effective" when only one sonority is heard for the entire 11 minutes? SCV has the most variety of effects and color, hands down. (Sorry, I haven't seen anyone else, except Blue Knights) SCV's show is written as a "Concerto for Drum Corps," with every group featured with sonority (tuba harmony?) AND notes! (h/t to Doug Thrower!) Creativity, Originality and Artistry. How is this different from Interpretation, as far as subjectivity goes? Infinite wiggle room here. All of the top tier (and I suspect lower too) are very creative and original. This is the essence of drum corps. SCV is sheer artistry in motion...they couldn't do it any other way, with such recognizable music, and a precedent set by Cadets! How does this relate to the title of thread? Crown doesn't own GE Music. Skywhopper said "Vanguard's biggest weakness appears to be their GE scores." I only aim to educate. GE is actually SCV's strength, if not yet fully realized or recognized. The parts are there [per the SHEETS], and some choose not to see them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegro89 Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 ^^^^^^^^^^ Bravo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I am in no way, shape, or form saying that last night's results in San Antonio are what we will see in August. BUT, I think some trends at the top are interesting. -- Crown seems to be reaching a plateau in performance. I'm sure they will overcome this, but will it be enough/in time? -- BD is starting to capture an essence of cleanliness and performance that is driving them forward. -- Cadets are still in the hunt. I honestly thought they would be #1 last night. -- SCV is closing the gap on the top 3. Of the top 4 I think they have the most room to grow in three weeks. With that said...... ••• How low could Crown finish if they aren't #1? ••• What do you think the top 4 will look like? Is the top 4 right now what we will see in August? I think they COULD finish as low as 4th, but it would be very unlikely. Their staff knows what they are doing ... I expect to see a new closer soon. I would be surprised to see them finish lower than 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Well, theoretically, 22nd I suppose. You did say "could" after all... But if that happens it will be the biggest 'peaked too early' in the history of drum corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 in my book SCV is a lock in fourth - great show for sure and fantastic drum line and very solid guard the other 3 are dicey - personally I see either BD or Cadets winning with Crown in 2nd due to drums but there's a lot of season left - we'll know more after Semi finals in Indy :tongue:/> I think this is probably right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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