BRASSO Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) Go back 20 years and substitute Star in this argument in place of BD. Come back in another 10, 15, 20 years it may be BD, Crown, or some corps not even around yet but I guarantee people will be whinning about them being rewarded. Star lost in 1993. They won just 1 DCI Title the years they were with DCI. The comparison that seems valid to me in the comparison between Star and BD is that for the most part both Corps were considered highly entertaining Corps for much of their time in DCI. Except for the usual small cadre of the jealous rivals, with most non aligned, unbiased fans, both Star and BD had years when audiences absolutely loved their shows... and the response from audiences electrifying. I was there. I witnessed it. Now for those not there, they can go to Fan Network and simply play the BD and Star shows from earlier years. Its all there. The great crowd responses are verifiable... observable. There is no gueeswork. No revisionist history. No biases. No spin. People can easily gauge the accuracy of my comments that Star and BD's shows have been loved by fans. But... they have also not been received well in some years too. These years fortunately are smaller in number. So I did want to provide a proper context here that Star and BD had mostly very good years of terrific coast to coast audience receptions to their shows. With Star however, I have noticed that too many people seem to want to concentrate too much time and energy on the few times where their shows did not connect well with audiences. But these times were the exception, not the rule. Both Corps have had mostly years where fans loved their shows. If they didn't, then DCI would not have put Star and BD on the Essentials Collection of Classic shows loved by Drum Corps fans nationwide. Edited July 30, 2013 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srb30a Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) There's plenty of programs to like if you dislike BDs. Is it the fact that they continue to win that's bothering you guys? I'm beginning the think the reaction to their show this year may surpass the reaction to the Rite of Spring the first time it was heard. And now it is considered on the the most significant compositions in the history of music. Cutting edge in the arts is never popular in it's time and usually in hind sight it become appreciated for it's contribution. The other point I'd like to bring to attention is that no one is forcing the kids to perform with BDs. And it's no secret that BDs attract some of the most talented kids in the activity. I would venture to say that these kids are probably some of the more serious music students around and feel that this is the best place to be in order to futher their music careers. They obviously have bought into the BD philosophy and I doubt the crowd reaction, or lack of, has much affect on them. After all they are at the top of their game and seem to be staying there. Edited July 30, 2013 by srb30a 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Go back 20 years and substitute Star in this argument in place of BD. Come back in another 10, 15, 20 years it may be BD, Crown, or some corps not even around yet but I guarantee people will be whinning about them being rewarded. I for one am ecstatic at the diversity of programming we are seeing being successful. When is the last time there were 3-4 legit contenders? It was back in the mid 90s and I believe Mark Sylvester was discussing the Cadets coming of age in the mid 80s and how it's those ideas that push the boundaries and make you the most uncomfortable that are oftentimes the most successful. Instead of complaining that BD out there doing their own thing and "not getting" their programming decisions, I wish people could just drop their pre-conceived expectations of what BD should be and actually experience what they are doing. Take the whole "re:write" segment of the show, when's the last time they have put together an extended killer jazzy section like that, for like several minutes? Could you imagine if Star never left the activity? What about when Cavaliers were doing real well? S.O.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wadep66 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Seems like we could go find this same thread in 08, 09, 10, not so much 11 and certainly in 12. I distinctly remember arguing about how BD 10 lacked emotion and didn't have a phrase longer than 3 bars of anything recognizable, which is why I didn't care for it. I recall being called a "hater" because I didn't like the show. That I "just wasn't letting myself enjoy it" and that it "was a roller-coaster of emotion from beginning to end" but I just wouldn't let myself enjoy the ride. I thought it was BS then, and I think it's BS now, when I see the same arguments rolled out. I think BD fans are so defensive about feeling they are beat up on SOLELY because they win a lot, that they thrash anyone who doesn't like the shows and label them as a "hater" because the thought that someone might actually have different tastes is somehow threatening to them. I still don't get it. I'm a Cadets fan since I saw my first championship in Atlanta in 1984. It does not hurt my feelings that some folks don't like Cadets shows. I remember being pummeled on this forum during 2008 about the god-awful writing of the dialogue of that show. Still didn't seem to me that folks labeled those who didn't like that show and certainly spewed lots of venom at George Hopkins as Cadet-haters. It didn't diminish my belief in what they do and still doesn't. I don't feel the need to "convert" everyone to Cadet lovers. Why then does this belittling of the non-BD lover continue on here? Why isn't it okay that folks want an simple, "emotional" show that actually brings tears to their eyes like the Troopers or Madison's show this year, during which I almost cried like a baby watching? Why do I have to watch the BD show a dozen times and concentrate to find emotion in it in order to have a valid opinion to the BD-lovers here? The only similar situations I can find are religion and politics. Just like the extreme leftists or right-wingers who label those that disagree with them as heartless, moronic, selfish, etc. without knowing anything about the person other than who they voted for-- Or those who make fun of or belittle someone with a different religious belief because somehow someone believing something different threatens the validity of their beliefs for them-- This is what I see in this thread. "You can't really just not like what the BD do, you have to not like the organization and ergo everyone in it and every fan of it---YOU HATER!!!" If someone wants to go to a drum corps show for loud chords, stirring melodies, beautiful ballads and sweeping drill formations that are recognizable for more than 4 counts, why is that so wrong? Why does it threaten your love for your own corps? Maybe instead of a Schindler's List, someone wants a Steel Magnolias. Why do you feel you must attack them? My friends who refer to them as "The PVC People" must have been brainwashed by the anti-BD league somewhere between the car and the bleachers without my noticing. I guess it really is a conspiracy to shut down the entire BD organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msumello Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Here's what I think The crowd isn't booing the corps, but booing the judges who came up with the scores..... I personally would never boo............no matter what corps your in, and you hear booing after your name .....even though the booes are directed at the judges and the scores, it still would hurt the players on the field....... Instead of booing I would simply reframe from shouting my lungs out to congratulate the winner the judges made, I'd clap, but not go wild. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikespeed Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 So it appears that BD is 1993 Star of Indiana again. Let's see, when have I heard this before? 2008, 2009, 2010, 2012... Almost every year! And every year, if anyone challenges the folks who say this, their defense is "well, you have to wait 20 years before you can even argue with me." Lame, lame, lame. For the record, I don't even mind BD this year. Heck, I even like their show better than Crown's. I'm just tired of hearing how they're just like Star '93 every. single. year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) There's plenty of programs to like if you dislike BDs. Is it the fact that they continue to win that's bothering you guys? I am definately begining to think that some people are incapable of separating out BD win jealousy ( present ) with the vast larger numbers of national fans that do not like the 2013 BD show because to them it is boring, confusing, or in some manner unappealing to them. They attribute the national audience reception to the fact that they " continue to win ". Are you incapable of understanding that a lot of the current audience displeasure is totally unrelated to the already acknowleged jealousy cadre of fans ? Or is such thinking perhaps beyond your ability to grasp such a current reality. Not a flame. I'm just curious, thats all. Edited July 30, 2013 by BRASSO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daave Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Some of this conversation has been on appreciation of the effort on the field and the kids (young adults) who put forth that effort. No matter what side of the conversation you find yourself... Pro BD... ABBD... Pro design...Anti design... Pro Dino... Anti Dino... Pro boo'ing... Anti boo'ing, etc I would wonder how many of those who were in Atlanta (or any show this summer for that matter) were in the stands to show that appreciation for the efforts of Music City, or Pioneer, or Cascades, or Genesis or whomever; or were you in the lot watching the other corps before coming in to be part of any combination of those things listed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) They obviously have bought into the BD philosophy and I doubt the crowd reaction, or lack of, has much affect on them. Ok, if so, then why in heavens name are so many DCP'ers seemingly upset with the booing of the scores in Atlanta ? If it has no effect on BD then can we stop with this complaining once and for all about a few disgruntled fans booing ? If BD does not care, then why do DCP'ers care about the booing ? Edited July 30, 2013 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srb30a Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I am definately begining to think that some people are incapable of separating out BD win jealousy ( present ) with the vast larger numbers of national fans that do not like the 2013 BD show because to them it is boring, confusing, or in some manner unappealing to them. They attribute the national audience reception to the fact that they " continue to win ". Are you incapable of understanding that a lot of the current audience displeasure is totally unrelated to the already acknowleged jealousy cadre of fans ? Or is such thinking perhaps beyond your ability to grasp such a current reality. Not a flame. I'm just curious, thats all. And where did you find this "vast number of national fans?" I think your point it total B***S**T. Boring? confusing? unappealing? Why don't you try thinking about it. End of point. I have nothing more to say about it other than you are clueless. Goodnight. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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