Someone Please Give Me A History Lesson

[Chris Cartwright]

Would anyone out there (and I don't mean to age anyone that marched back in the '50s and '60s) like to educate me on what drum corps was like before DCI? Was there anything drastically different competing in the VFW and American Legion circuits? I can't find any good information about drum corps history anywhere and the history of drum corps just really fascinates me! Also, I've heard that even though DCI began as a drum corps circuit in the '70s, but I've read that the American Legion competitions ran through 2001 (?). Anyway, any information would help, I'm really interested.

[Northern Thunder]

I didn't march in the 50s or 60s, but I can tell you that until DCI had its first season in 1972, drum corps was heavily influenced by its military roots.

Much of a corps' score came from the actual mistakes made on the field, and a military inspection (prior to stepping off) was part of the total score.

The general effect or buildup captions didn't get much attention until the later years. The cleaner you could march, drum and play your horn the higher you were going to score.

Most of the judges were military guys, and if they saw "fluff" on your uniform or bugle it was a one-tenth deduction. Same if your hair was seen as being too long, etc.

The field drills were straight lines.....the straighter the better, and there was always the required national flag presentation. The music was rooted in rudiments, and, those old bugles were limited to just which

notes could be physically played. But it's amazing just how proficient some of those corps were in those days. What started out as nearly all marches or patriotic tunes quickly evolved into

popular songs, Broadway and film music, with some classics thrown in. The adventurous corps even got into jazz by the mid-1950s.

[joefanalum]

I didn't march in the 50s or 60s, but I can tell you that until DCI had its first season in 1972, drum corps was heavily influenced by its military roots.

Much of a corps' score came from the actual mistakes made on the field, and a military inspection (prior to stepping off) was part of the total score.

The general effect or buildup captions didn't get much attention until the later years. The cleaner you could march, drum and play your horn the higher you were going to score.

Most of the judges were military guys, and if they saw "fluff" on your uniform or bugle it was a one-tenth deduction. Same if your hair was seen as being too long, etc.

The field drills were straight lines.....the straighter the better, and there was always the required national flag presentation. The music was rooted in rudiments, and, those old bugles were limited to just which

notes could be physically played. But it's amazing just how proficient some of those corps were in those days. What started out as nearly all marches or patriotic tunes quickly evolved into

popular songs, Broadway and film music, with some classics thrown in. The adventurous corps even got into jazz by the mid-1950s.

A very nice way to explain back in 50’s and 60’s drum Corps with getting anyones feathers in a ruff…

Pete

[JimF-LowBari]

Didn't corps have to march 120 beats per minute for VFW and AL shows during this time? There was a caption on the sheets for this but have heard different stories how hard it was judged later on.

Only know a bit about the horns back then. 50s started with single valves and moved to sops pulling on the slide to get 2nd valve notes. Then piston/rotor for all horns by 1969. Lowest voice in the early 50s was a Tenor Bari than sounded like a trombone (kind of). Bass Baris (like Baris today) added ????? and Contras early/mid 60s.

[MikeD]

Didn't corps have to march 120 beats per minute for VFW and AL shows during this time? There was a caption on the sheets for this but have heard different stories how hard it was judged later on.

There was a caption called 'Cadence' on the VFW sheets. The timing/penalty judge would sample the corps a few times (my first thought is '3'), and the tempo had to be within a prescribed range...something like 126-132 or thereabouts. Corps would lose tenths based on how far off that they were. corpsreps has the 1971 VFW recap on the site, and you can see how rare it was to get hit for that.

[JimF-LowBari]

Thanks Mike....

Dang almost forgot..... OK it's a Senior... oops... All Age corps but Hawthorne Caballeros have some 1960s show vids on their site www.cabs.org. Off the top of my head 1961/1962 exhibitions are really clear and was done professionally and 1967 AL is kinda dark and grainy.

[ajlisko]

There was a caption called 'Cadence' on the VFW sheets. The timing/penalty judge would sample the corps a few times (my first thought is '3'), and the tempo had to be within a prescribed range...something like 126-132 or thereabouts. Corps would lose tenths based on how far off that they were. corpsreps has the 1971 VFW recap on the site, and you can see how rare it was to get hit for that.

As I recall in the 60's, the cadence had to be around what Mike said (around 128) ... the Chief Judge sampled it four times during the show ... this was Schleckta's favorite "slush fund" for corps he wanted to move around in the standings ... that, and Inspection ... LOL ...

Ask Ken Norman how Tony used to "break" ties ... like in the 1962 VFW Prelims ... The Kilties and Cambridge were tied @ 84.00 for the longest time ... like right until Prelims ended ... then an "error" was found bumping the Kilts to an 84.05 and dropping St. Raphael's from the Finals ... ya see - Tony didn't like no ties at his Nationals ... I wish someone would have taken a piture of the early tote board that showed the tie ...

:-)

[rayfallon]

The "military connection" above was evidenced mainly in a preshow inspection in a company front on the back sideline, #1 endzone.

Most corps had thrown off the military styled music by the early 50s with examples such as "The King and I" winning the VFW Legion in 1954 with Archer-Epler. Corps had strong individual identities which dictated their show styles.

After watching this year's Madison for instance you would love to hear them at the '59 VFW Championship playing "You'll Never Walk Alone", already their corps song for years. Generally strong brass line would run 40 - 50 horns. Drum lines would go 4 snares, 4 tenors, 3 cymbals + or -) and 4 bass drums. The pit consisted of a glockenspiel or concert bells mounted on a harness or sling. You'll hear those bells on the 59 Madison recording, doubling the soprano (trumpet0 melody.

Just a few arrangers dominated the musical scene, Senior and Junior. Truman Crawford's 1965 Royal Airs from Chicago were the Gold Standard prior to DCI. Troopers and Cavies came East in 1966 and showed us all how corps could move - we were thunderstruck. Troopers Drum Major Pete Emmons was one of the first Jr Drum Corps rock stars. Soon afterward a young man from St Lucy's in North NJ named Jimmy Russo had the same effect in the NE.

In the NYC area Hy Dreitzer earned a reputation as an all-time great. Next to him was his close friend Joe Genero. The two divided up the NYC CT area and virtually taught EVERYONE who was anyone, while others like Red Nichols put together charts for corps like the Bellmore Thunderbolts and Smithtown Freelances.

John Sasso, after leaving the Queensmen in 1962 began what was lovingly called the "Long Island Conservatory of Music" with the Sunrisers during the '60s, bringing along such greats as the afore-mentioned Dorritie, John "Screech" Arientano, one young Wayne Downey - you may have heard of him, and even more important taught the senior drum corps world that ensemble quality was the key to a successful hornline. He raised the bar further than anyone save (possibly) Tru Crawford.

Philadelphia had legends Bob Adair (and brother Don) opposed by their yang, Lee Wolf. The Philly South Jersey world was divided up into Reilly guys and Archie guys.

Drum guy Billy Kaufman and his sidekick Eric Landis brought out talent such as Thom Hannum George Hopkins, Dale Adair, Mark Thurston, and so many more while the DeLucia school was pumping out Tommy Igoe of big band fame, and more.

In the Senior Corps world George Rodriguez taught some incredible players and had them playing at Hawthorne or Gabarina Skyliners by the early 60s. Names like Tommy Martin, Bucky Swan, Harry Hazlewood, Donald Angelica, Frank Dorritie (although he was years younger than the others mentioned), Frank Deliberto, were as familiar to younger buglers as names like George Harrison, John Lennon, Roger Waters, Pete Townshend were to followers of Rock and Roll. We followed them to rehearsals, shows, sometimes to post competitions parties where everyone needed to be conscious of all the "groupies' " ages.

Sunriser (and Queensman) drummer Billy Cobham rocked the Universe on "Sing Sing Sing" before moving on to become arguably the best jazz drummer in the entire world.

I left out FH and bari players such as John Simpson, Billy Hightower, Riggie Laus, John Sasso.

People complained, and rightfully so, about the bugles - utter junk which occasionally got worse such as when DEG broke away from Getzen. Make your head hurt. If you played on a Smith horn in the early 70s you had the sense that they were embarrassed to put their real name on the instrument so named it like at a no-tell motel, the Mr and Mrs John Smith horn.

But the real players were tuning every note with a slip slide, and perfectly so. Even today grab a recording called "Portrait in Brass" from 1960 Skyliners and the solo work (I&E pieces) will leave you shaking your head. "You Made me Love YOU" played by Bucky Swan? You would have gladly forked over your money to hear Harry James play it not an iota better. The Fox Hunter? pristine triple tonguing throughout. I listened to John Simpson on a recording of "Rhapsody in Blue" (arranged by himself) just yesterday and felt as amazed as I did at the age of 12.

Was it better? To those of us who lived it or admired it it was. The individuality was incredible. Anyone who thinks that Bucky Swan couldn't cut lead trumpet at BD is kidding themselves - he could probably STILL make it better.

There were several really large corps and 1 billion tiny corps with max brass lines of around 30 players. Carl Sagan couldn't have counted them. We all did patriotic pieces called Color Presentations (by rule) but that was about it with respect to the military. There were as many (or at least there were some) folks opposed to the draft and to the war, pplus idiots like me who enlisted the day the SDS burned the flag at St Johns in 1970. We weren't a group of "Hitler Youth" masquerading as a bugle band. We had the same nuanced arguments as kids do now, maybe moreso as we spent zero time worrying about Justin Bieber or Jay Z. We had no cell phones but we carried jobs all summer. Many of us skipped our HS graduations to go to marching rehearsal.

The guard was initially a guard for the national colors. Somewhere along the way someone noticed that if you threw one of those big-### M1s and someone caught it, the crowd liked it - eventually it morphed into Holley Hawks.

Drumlines were rudiment factories - Bobby Thompson had his imprint on many of the early DCI lines and hung out with his star pupil Dennis DeLucia as the Bridgeman drum beast evolved, never to be equaled.

It was the best of times... it was the less best of times. We got drafted a lot, or enlisted. Bunches of guys never made it back to the activity - others never made it back period. One of my earliest heroes - Bill Gallagher from LI Sunrisers, a bass trombone major at Julliard when drafted) took a round to the head and suffered brain damage at Da Nang.

We were self-contained. All our friends were in our corps - we were each others' best men and maids of honor, and brides and grooms. We eventually chose corps friends while we split up our resources in divorce.

This is just the tip of the shiny melting part of the iceberg, guys - these were rich, golden times. Better or worse than now? No idea - you judge. But just the most fun you could ever experience. I've left out 90% or more of the good stuff. And some of it if you printed it, someone would have to kill you.

These Were the days, my friend...

Edited August 15, 2013 by rayfallon

[Joe Flynn]

Would anyone out there (and I don't mean to age anyone that marched back in the '50s and '60s) like to educate me on what drum corps was like before DCI? Was there anything drastically different competing in the VFW and American Legion circuits? I can't find any good information about drum corps history anywhere and the history of drum corps just really fascinates me! Also, I've heard that even though DCI began as a drum corps circuit in the '70s, but I've read that the American Legion competitions ran through 2001 (?). Anyway, any information would help, I'm really interested.

Where DCI is becoming the "reviled satan of drum corps" today (in some fan's eyes), that was where the American Legion and, to a greater extent, the VFW was prior to DCI. In fact, their refusal to allow corps to control their own destiny was what led to the formation of DCI.

By the late 1960's / early 1970's, for example, corps had started experimenting with show concepts and programming. This was quickly shot down by the powers at the VFW who threatened to significantly penalize anyone who dared to wear anything but standard drum corps "uniforms" or to have any sort of "fun" or (God forbid) dancing on the field. Corps were required to maintain cadence between 120 & 128 beats per minute, measured three different times during the shows, with penalties assessed for any variance. "Inspections" were held with the inspection caption (at the VFW) holding the same point value as the General Effect caption! (Tells you the value that was put on showmanship!)

VFW Point Assignments

Inspection = 10 points

Cadence = 10 points

Marching and Maneuvering = 30 points

Brass = 20 points

Drumming = 20 points

General Effect = 10 points

In addition to the two veterans groups (who set the national rules), there were also dozens of local circuits who would have a variety of different twists on things as well.

On the other hand .......

While there were literally hundreds of corps in existence, the "top corps" (the big name corps) numbered about the same as the World Class corps of today and, pretty much year after year, you'd see the same top corps in the national championship finals (much like today). There'd be some variance year to year with corps dropping out and another taking its place but, overall, that hasn't changed all that much.

What HAS changed has been the number of shows nationwide and the absolute need to travel hundreds (thousands?) of miles simply to get a full season in. New Jersey, for example, would see at least a show happening every weekend and usually multiple shows going on each weekend. New York, Illinois, Wisconsin, Massachusetts ... all pretty much the same. By the late 1960's, California had joined that list as well.

The "big corps" fed on the smaller corps for membership (again, not dissimilar to today) but the need to be a "music major" was pretty much non existent in those pre-DCI days as even the big corps would teach a kid how to play from scratch. (Most top corps had very few kids who could actually read music).

Another huge difference was staff size ...... most corps had a visual staff of no more than 2 or 3, a brass staff of perhaps 2, and a drum staff of 1. The administrations might total 5 or 6 (if lucky).

Drum corps was also a true year round activity with (at least in the east) shows starting in mid-May and continuing until early September. There may be a break in weekly rehearsals during October but by November, most corps were back at it (again weekly rehearsals) to get ready for the next season.

Definitely different times .... not sure they were "that much better" though. Transportation generally were in death traps (buses that lacked any semblance to a safe vehicle), no one understood (or cared much) about such things as "warming up" or "dehydration" but we all survived. I see how kids in corps eat and are cared for physically today and think, "Holy ####".

And, finally, that all adds up to costs. Corps used to be able to function on a shoestring budget with unpaid staff and operations that were entirely run by volunteers. Corps dues of $0.50 or $1 per week were commonplace (but kids had to feed themselves at restaurants on the road). Today, if a corps dues is under $3,000, it's considered low .... and there's no way a kid, today, can maintain a summer job to help pay for things.

A lot has been gained musically and professionally ..... corps are infinitely better today musically and physically. But a lot has been lost as well ....

[N.E. Brigand]

Would anyone out there (and I don't mean to age anyone that marched back in the '50s and '60s) like to educate me on what drum corps was like before DCI?

It may be worth emphasizing that DCA was founded seven years before DCI was.