Jeff Ream Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Let's look at some recent DCI shows: If Crown did not want to use rifles in their E=MC2 show for design reasons or The Academy did not want to use rifles in their Piano Man show for design reasons fine; however it would have been PC silliness for Madison to not use them in their 'Corps of Brothers' show or for the Cavilers to yell, "This is my Airblade; there are many like it, but this one is mine". What is happening more and more often across this country, especially with schools, is the latter (PC silliness). PC silliness or not, it is somewhat of a fact of life that people may be offended. While I feel many PC issues are IMO stupid as ####### hell, it is the world....and no matter how much you want to Stu, you are not the PC police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 There seemed to be a number of corps in early 80's that either didn't use rifles, or used them sparingly. At one point Blue Devils stopped using them as did Phantom. Vanguard didn't use any rifles for a long time - bringing them back in '87. One thing I didn't realize - Star of Indiana never once used rifles in it's 9 years of existence on the field. I never knew that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) You are actually supporting my position about how some in society have become way overly sensitive, and that me stating my opinion that I consider fabricated PC as being rather silly is now considered as me also being condescending; and thus I should avoid stating my believe that they are being silly because it may hurt someone’s feelings. If that is the case then I say to them 'grow a pair and get over it'. Sorry - I have to edit this and suspend myself. Nothing or no one on here is worth getting ###### off at. Edited October 11, 2013 by rayfallon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 PC silliness or not, it is somewhat of a fact of life that people may be offended. While I feel many PC issues are IMO stupid as ####### hell, it is the world....and no matter how much you want to Stu, you are not the PC police. Yes people often get offended by most anything; but they need to be told, most all of the time, that offense has been, is, and will always be a fact of life, and in most occasions they need to also be told to just deal with it, get over it, move on, and not placated by upending the apple cart for the rest of the world. Otherwise we end up attempting to placate some who is offended by this, but not others who are offended by that, which ends up creating a larger mess than the original situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Sorry - I have to edit this and suspend myself. Nothing or no one on here is worth getting ###### off at. Here is something to help ya out (link) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Yes people often get offended by most anything; but they need to be told, most all of the time, that offense has been, is, and will always be a fact of life, and in most occasions they need to also be told to just deal with it, get over it, move on, and not placated by upending the apple cart for the rest of the world. Otherwise we end up attempting to placate some who is offended by this, but not others who are offended by that, which ends up creating a larger mess than the original situation. well thank God we have you...you can fix this controverseyabout using rifles for all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) well thank God we have you...you can fix this controverseyabout using rifles for all! Yep; and if anyone gets offended just send them to the website link I provided to Rayfallon. But if anyone can show me actual hard data where millions of kids are being drawn into a life of crime by tossing and spinning wooden prop rifles in the marching arts, or becoming depraved youth by watching a drum corps engage in that activity, I promise to rethink my position; until then it is just PC bru ha ha and those offended need to grow a pair. Edited October 11, 2013 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) Agree with your basic statement, but every little change has been a violent transformation, otherwise we would have had 3 piston multi-keyed instruments in 1968 when we knew we needed them, and pits in about 1965. Change has been glacial at best over these 50 years. I give enormous credit to the pioneers that kept pushing to make these changes happen, despite the activity's best attempts to maintain the status quo. This is why DCP can be a good source to see the diversity of thought within the Drum Corps Community. Huge diversity of thought. I know of no other youth sport competition that has undergone more changes the last 50 years within their realm than the Drum and Bugle Corps changes. I'm willing to listen to an attempt to name such an enterprise youth sport, and compare the changes between that entity and that of the Drum Corps changes. My assessment and observation is that there is no such entity that has had the depth, breadth, scope,degree of changes as we have had in Drum Corps. The changes in my view were rapid, extensive, and far reaching ( note I did not become judgemental here that the changes were " good" or " bad "). Yet, we have other voices such as yourself that tell us that in their view the Drum and Bugle Corps activity has ( quote ) " change that has been glacial ( slow ) at best the last 50 years ". I could not disagree more with this assessment of the level of changes that has taken place, not its level of rapidity. But it does demonstrate that people oftentimes look at things quite differently and their assessments of the rapidity and the degree of " change " that took place can vary quite dramatically between's each's personal observations and assessments. Edited October 11, 2013 by BRASSO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 This is why DCP can be a good source to see the diversity of thought within the Drum Corps Community. Huge diversity of thought. I know of no other youth sport competition that has undergone more changes the last 50 years within their realm than the Drum and Bugle Corps changes. I'm willing to listen to an attempt to name such an enterprise youth sport, and compare the changes between that entity and that of the Drum Corps changes. My assessment and observation is that there is no such entity that has had the depth, breadth, scope,degree of changes as we have had in Drum Corps. The changes in my view were rapid, extensive, and far reaching ( note I did not become judgemental here that the changes were " good" or " bad "). Yet, we have other voices such as yourself that tell us that in their view the Drum and Bugle Corps activity has ( quote ) " change that has been glacial ( slow ) at best the last 50 years ". I could not disagree more with this assessment of the level of changes that has taken place, not its level of rapidity. But it does demonstrate that people oftentimes look at things quite differently and their assessments of the rapidity and the degree of " change " that took place can vary quite dramatically between's each's personal observations and assessments. You're not wrong. And yet, somewhere on DCP in the next months we will read a thread about how "bugles" in G sound better and louder. And the poster will make it sound objective and unequivocal, with stats to back it up. Anyone that disagrees will be a simpleton, or a communist. Another thread will post about how "objective judging" i.e. "ticks" for errors is far superior to "build-up" or "subjective" judging (that horse left the barn in 1984 - glacial enough for you?). For years and years we fought to add a 2nd, then a 3rd piston to bugles in the key of G, because the idea of changing to a superior instrument (yes, my opinion) was repugnant to so many, including the folks that steered the activity. Here's a fact: In 1978 when we retooled the Bridgemen's brass section to brass lacquer Old's Ultratone instruments (in G) we were forced to buy brand new 1 piston with a rotary mellos and contra-bass instruments because the rules congress stated only one voice per year could be changed. And that's for a 2nd piston - not 3! Not multi-keyed. Just to get a second vertical piston! If that's not glacial, it's certainly a very large snowbank taking a long time to melt in early April. There's no question that one's experience shapes one's views, and my experience (now 52 years involved in the activity in some way or another) has left me feeling that change has been slow and hard fought. Like you, I love the activity - love it. It's possible that the hard fight ingrained in us some passion that helped the activity. You can't fight for decades to get a better instrument without getting passionate about it. But some of it left me feeling tired, and at times sad. I think about what some of these lines could have done with better built instruments, and btw a lot of the "brakes on" attitude was advertised as being on behalf of corps with less money, so that the more affluent corps couldn't "buy" an advantage. But during this time we forced groups with barely enough money to exist to buy absolute junk - you needed to see the first baritone I played on that my corps bought used (think "abused") from the NY Skyliners. Cheap? maybe. Good for that corps? I doubt it. I know I'm long winded about this, and it's ironic because I think I agree with you in essence, and admire your passion - it makes me happy that this activity that I came to in 1960 is healthy enough to sustain passion in 2013. I guess I'm worn out enough from the fight to be unwilling to call the change "fast" or the activity "responsive". And yes, I was one of the people involved in the "fight". I wasn't just watching it from the stands. But... you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 Is this still the 'George Hopkins - Soothsayer' thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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