Overall Quality?

[Dan Detweiler]

Hi foliks,

I have an honest question here for those who have been around a lot longer than I have. Having been directly involved in DCA for only two years as drum major for Atlanta CV, I have developed an impression based on my pre-concieved thoughts regarding "senior" corps, that grow out of my (probably warped) impressions from my junior corps days back in the '80s.

Take this with absolutely no disrespect to anyone past, present and future in any way shape or form but it seems to me that while the raw number of corps may be decreasing overall, the quality of the finalist corps (as well as others) seems to be getting better and better. It seems to me that there are many more corps stepping up to the plate and challenging for higher and higher placements than in the past.

I would be interested in getting the thoughts of those that have been around a lot longer than I have on this. Again, please do not read anything into this as being a slight to any corps at any time. Just curious if my impressions are shared.

Thanks,

Dan

[oldephard]

Yes, the qualtiy is definitely better. Some may disagree on what style they like better, but the corps are better from top to bottom than they were 10, 20, even 50 years ago. I attribute this mostly to the overall increase in the quality and number of competitive marching bands. Kids are showing up to drum corps more ready to perform than they were 20 years ago. These bands are also good training grounds for new instructors for the corps.

And to your comment about the overall number of corps declining, this is simply not true in the DCA era. DCA started out with less than 10 corps and quickly grew to a steady 15-17 corps showing up for Preliminaries in the late 60's through the 70's. The 80's saw a slight increase, with 16-19 corps at Prelims,(87 was the exception with 23 corps)

The number of corps did dwindle in the 90's with a low point of 13 corps in 1993. But, from 1994 to 2003, the number of corps grew slowly but surely, back to a steady 16-17 corps at Prelims.

From 2004 to last year, the number of corps at DCA Prelims has been between 20 - 26, with 2005 being the largest turnout at Prelims.

[Dan Detweiler]

Yes, the qualtiy is definitely better. Some may disagree on what style they like better, but the corps are better from top to bottom than they were 10, 20, even 50 years ago. I attribute this mostly to the overall increase in the quality and number of competitive marching bands. Kids are showing up to drum corps more ready to perform than they were 20 years ago. These bands are also good training grounds for new instructors for the corps.

And to your comment about the overall number of corps declining, this is simply not true in the DCA era. DCA started out with less than 10 corps and quickly grew to a steady 15-17 corps showing up for Preliminaries in the late 60's through the 70's. The 80's saw a slight increase, with 16-19 corps at Prelims,(87 was the exception with 23 corps)

The number of corps did dwindle in the 90's with a low point of 13 corps in 1993. But, from 1994 to 2003, the number of corps grew slowly but surely, back to a steady 16-17 corps at Prelims.

From 2004 to last year, the number of corps at DCA Prelims has been between 20 - 26, with 2005 being the largest turnout at Prelims.

I stand corrected then...thank you!

Dan

[drumcorpsfever]

but it seems to me that while the raw number of corps may be decreasing overall, the quality of the finalist corps (as well as others) seems to be getting better and better. It seems to me that there are many more corps stepping up to the plate and challenging for higher and higher placements than in the past.

Here's my 2 cents:

The high-end quality today is better than it's ever been. Don't be mistaken by the decreasing number of corps. Anyone who's gone to an adjudicated band show, BOA, etc., would attest that the number of participants seems to be GROWING - i.e., competitive high school marching bands from the hundreds of schools throughout the country, indoor percussion, winter guard, and the emerging Drum Line Battle and Sound Sport (hopefully) just to name a few is influencing what's happening on the competitive drum corps field. Those same participants are the pipeline for drum corps. Drum corps and related activities have become year-round for many - including the design and instructional staff talent to go along with the performing members.

edited for spelling correction

Edited October 29, 2013 by drumcorpsfever

[Jeff Ream]

while DCA started with a small amount of corps, there were many other "senior" corps around competiting in other circuits. Those numbers dwindled into the 80s until really DCA was the only game in town. By 1993, DCA was down to 13 corps at prelims, it slowly grew or held steady in the mid teens until the explosion of corps from outside of the NE that started happening after 2000.

That said, the record number of corps I think is 26 the last year at Scranton or first year in Rochester. And the 22 this past year were ALL better in quality than the 26 that year. Yes, show design may turn off older fans, maybe even some newer ones, but as a guy with his ### in the seats finals weekend since 1997, the quality of designand performance has never been better. Yes, the Bucs have owned DCA ( minus the MBI year) since 2005, but hell the corps going down to 8th place this year were light years better than corps in those same spots from even 5 years ago.

A perfect example....Shenandoah Sound. I know i've been critical in reviews sometimes in the past. but the last two years, SS has taken large steps forward in design and performer quality from where they were even in 2011. Yes, they have room to grow, but there was one year where I really just didn't want to see their show again and contemplated getting to prelims late to miss it. the last two years, I have made sure I was in my seat for them because they have grown....and they are so to speak towardsthe bottom of the pile.

So yes, growth has occured in quality in DCA...and I'm sure in time we may see more corps attending finals weekend in addition to what we have now. Class A has been a huge boost for DCA, and it's helped raise the bar overall for the circuit.

[Fran Haring]

My reply is probably a story for another thread.... and I'm trying not to sound like a negative sourpuss here...LOL:

I totally agree that the quality level of the finalists has increased, by leaps and bounds... particularly the "lower echelon" finalists... who, not too many years ago, would have finished quite a bit higher in the standings. The days of five or six great-to-good finalist corps and three or four not-so-great finalist corps are gone.

But I think the season-long overall "value for the fans" quality of the corps could be better... in particular if the corps dialed back the visual demand and focused more on the circuit's strengths... brass, percussion, personality, etc.

The product is great from mid-August on. And championship weekend... wow. Great stuff.

But... and again, this is my own opinion and not the views of anyone else or any drum corps organization...trust me, I represent no one...LOL... the recent emphasis on visual demand is not helpful for the early-season to mid-season product, in terms of sheer entertainment and enjoyment value for the paying customers. It's not giving the all-age corps a chance to really shine at what they do very well: Playing great music at a high level of achievement, and reaching out to the fans on a "personality level" basis.

That "up close and personal" touch... drum majors who interact with the audience, well-known brass soloists, the generally more relaxed atmosphere.... is a strength of DCA, and something that makes it unique from the DCI product. If we lose that, we lose a very refreshing and engaging aspect of the product.

Unique is good. If the DCA product morphs into a weekend-only version of the DCI product, then why bother?

All-age corps, by the very nature of the beast ( weekends only, much less rehearsal time in-season than the DCI corps) will never be able to match the DCI side on the sheer visual-demand front. I'm not sure why they even continue to try to do so. Is it an ego thing? I don't know.

Perhaps the visual emphasis on the all-age side should be on staging, coordination of elements, and support of the music... not on "hey look... we're doing three-thousand pages of drill, just like the DCI guys!!!" Except the "DCI guys" are doing that a lot better. Because they have the time to do so.

Again, perhaps a story for another thread.

Off my soapbox now. LOL.

We now return to our regularly-scheduled topic.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Fran Haring

[shenandoahsound]

A perfect example....Shenandoah Sound. I know i've been critical in reviews sometimes in the past. but the last two years, SS has taken large steps forward in design and performer quality from where they were even in 2011. Yes, they have room to grow, but there was one year where I really just didn't want to see their show again and contemplated getting to prelims late to miss it. the last two years, I have made sure I was in my seat for them because they have grown....and they are so to speak towardsthe bottom of the pile.

So yes, growth has occured in quality in DCA...and I'm sure in time we may see more corps attending finals weekend in addition to what we have now. Class A has been a huge boost for DCA, and it's helped raise the bar overall for the circuit.

Thanks Jeff. We are working hard every day to get better and I agree with your assessment about where we have come from. I also have to say that all of our Class A competitors just keep getting better which makes for a full slate of entertainment no matter what show you go to. And it pushes us as well.

[TomPeashey]

I actually agree with everyone on here... and with year 50 years for DCA coming up it's significant that I have been around actively working with a DCA corps or judging or administrating since year 2... (Missed year one due to Cru, Brigs and Cabs being reluctant to join) I guess I might have a pretty good right to have an opinion...

but the quality and "entertainment value" of all participating corps - especially in show design - has improved immensely...

Several points...

1. All corps are trying very hard to improve the product while still entertaining

2. The huge increase in Band activity has - even more than recruiting - provided an amazing amount of work for the staff members to hone their craft...

3. Some may not want to hear this... but the 35 people rule WORKS... corps with fewer than that were simply not able to entertain

[BOSMarcher]

3. Some may not want to hear this... but the 35 people rule WORKS... corps with fewer than that were simply not able to entertain

I promise I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest, but I think the exception to this statement is Star United. So, I would not say it is impossible to entertain with less than 35, but they are certainly the exception, and not the rule.

[Kamarag]

I promise I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest, but I think the exception to this statement is Star United. So, I would not say it is impossible to entertain with less than 35, but they are certainly the exception, and not the rule.

Mini-Corps are not competitive corps. They are not performing (usually) on a field with drill. They are designed for smaller venues, or as exhibition filler.