Jeff Ream Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I must admit to being impressed by the appearance of this eloquent turn of the phrase on this forum: "...that would just be insane schadenfreude..." And that really is the point. Perhaps a "real world" anecdote would add perspective. A while back, I heard Rita Moreno sing with a trio at a local caberet. She appeared for 3 nights, two sets per evening, all of them recorded. I attended "finals". At the performance in question , she began by saying, "I have a bit of a throat on this evening and may miss a note or two. It won't bother me. Don't let it bother you." She did have one little unintentional crack. When the recording was released, it wasn't there, and that is as it should be. It was an anomaly, not truly representative of Rita Moreno as an artist. Those of us who witnessed the actual event will just have to store her miss in the audio of memory. One wonders how many versions, revisions and edits exist of the Mona Lisa, Sunday in the Park, Finnegan's Wake, the Gospels of Matthew, War and Peace, and Saturday Night Live. If you were there, you witnessed the event. A recording will never be able to replicate that. Reverb, compression, ambience, fades, equalization, sampling rate and a host of other technical travesties must be visited on any other mass-consumed mechanical version. It's just a ghost of the actual happening, an impression, an "editorial", like any other historical document. It reflects someone's POV. And that, my learned colleagues, as Mr.Sondheim wrote, is the art of making art..."Putting it Together". whats odd about your choice of example and comparing it to DCi is how DCI handled 89 BD: on the original tapes ( no cd's yet) in 89, edited out. When they did the Legacy collection, it wasn't edited out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narrow Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I think it's alright to edit small fragments of the Finals performance as long as its from that weekend. The shows have already been judged and at that point the DVDs are about entertainment only and why not try to deliver the best product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) 1982 SCV recording audio (33&1/3 LP(!)) as well as the legacy series DVD both had the phasing at the end of 'Bottle Dance'. Edited January 16, 2014 by IllianaLancerContra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearwonk Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Thanks for all the replies from people in the know. The consensus so far seems to be "the Finals are over with, now let's produce a product." I don't have a problem with that, but I think that those who make the blanket comparison to editing a concert for commercial release are ignoring the risk that altering the results of a competition may raise questions about its integrity. What would happen if the Olympics, to which DCI pays tribute with the slogan "The Summer Music Games," sold edited versions of the event to show athletes not botching the landings, not tripping on hurdles and not sliding off the edge of the ski slope, just so it would look better? On the other hand, as a consumer and a fan of the activity, I do appreciate not having to repeatedly listen to the clams that have been fixed. If fixing mistakes more and more supports the impression that DCI is growing as a medium of musical excellence, then DCI has a practical and financial interest in doing so, and that's fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearwonk Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 1982 SCV recording audio (33&1/3 LP(!)) as well as the legacy series DVD both had the phasing at the end of 'Bottle Dance'. They only pulled "Bottle Dance" out for the Finals, so there was no way to fix it. Did that cost them 1st place, does anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 They only pulled "Bottle Dance" out for the Finals, so there was no way to fix it. Did that cost them 1st place, does anyone know? True it was a 1-time performance. But back then did the technology let them edit in/out one tune? I am curious - I really don't know. So far as costing them, I am sure it did not help their chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) You couldn't have fixed the '82 SCV performance, since the Bottle Dance wasn't part of the prelims show and the recordings were totally different between the two events. Ken Kobold was recording just prelims that year, using a two-mic set up on the 50, whereas Finals used a more professional multi-mic set up across the playing area (and digital recording, if I remember correctly). Kobold's recordings were pretty dynamically flat, so wouldn't have patched in well, even if the charts hadn't changed from prelims to finals. As to whether they 'lost' Finals on that, nah. BD had almost a 2 point spread. Nothing could have helped SCV cover that distance. Edited January 16, 2014 by Slingerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearwonk Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Kobold's recordings were pretty dynamically flat... Hey, Kobold knew what he was doing with the dynamics thing. He sorta got thrown under the bus when he had to make room for the pit. It took DCI 30 years to learn how to balance the pit with the rest of the corps on the recordings. Edited January 16, 2014 by gearwonk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterA Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) As much as I would appreciate hearing/seeing the final performance from each corps, I can understand each corps wanting their best performance on the CD/DVD. I do feel that DCI should put liner notes stating which corps chose to use a performance that wasn't their final performance though, and the reason. For example they could state that due to an injury at finals, the semi-finals footage was used for Carolina Crown, or due to audio issues, Blue Devils are using quarterfinals audio, etc. I remember for example, the Magic Of Orlando fall in 2002. The drummer tripped over a piece of equipment that wasn't moved because of a dropped rifle. It knocked the kid down pretty hard. I remember those tense seconds before he finally got up and walked over to rejoin the corps. And I remember the crowd reaction as he did, and how emotional that was, and was really glad they kept that in the released product. Yes it was a fall, and I am sure the young man would probably rather it not be on the finals product. But the show of emotion from the audience as we all cheered him on shows what an amazing activity we have, and I am glad to be able to watch it time and time again. I just wish that on thefannetwork.org they would leave each show intact for each day. And for the actual DVD releases, I wish they would at least credit which performance from each corps is on the DVD/CD. Edited January 16, 2014 by MisterA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hey, Kobold knew what he was doing with the dynamics thing. He sorta got thrown under the bus when he had to make room for the pit. It took DCI 30 years to learn how to balance the pit with the rest of the corps on the recordings. Ken was a great asset to the activity, and produced some beautiful recordings in challenging environments. The '74 Finals recordings are, to my mind, still the single best DCI Finals set ever. Mic placement and choice, and the mixing of the recordings themselves were excellent. But by the end of his DCI recording days, he'd gone to just two mics on a stand on the 50, which provided very poor spatial imaging, and recorded a limited amount of input from the field. I don't think they've quite nailed the pit/corps balance yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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