jjeffeory Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 They did Simple Gifts in 2008. Promise of Living was done by Crown in '09. SCV based their entire show around it in '09. It's not just that Cadets are doing it again, it's that any corps is doing it again. There's a ton of material out there. Why not find something different? You see Bluecoats, Devils and a bunch of other corps bringing brand new music to the field. If people want to hear how the Cadets handle Aaron Copland, they have plenty of choices between 1987, 1988, 1991, 1996, and 2008. Well, I just wrote a long response to another poster and I've been looking at their rep. The Cadets have been recycling a LOT of music the past 14 years. The first 14 years, most things they did were new to drum corps, but not this phase of the corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitmusic Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Great comments, especially the idea that an Americana show right now may not be appealing. One thing we should probably be aware of is these show designs very much depend on where Hoppy is right now. What is he thinking about? What's going on in his personal life and what life stage is he in? lol. Sorry, but it's so very true. its more like "what book is he listening to in the car?" and "what was the latest lesson from the (not at all cult-like) Landmark Forum?" i am very, very worried that the activity has passed them by. this would be the sad irony of sad ironies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) What I REALLY find impressive about the posts on this site is that the moment SCV announced they were doing "Scheherazade" again, the majority of the comments on that thread were overwhelmingly in support of it. But yet, Cadets play a couple of songs they've played in the past, it's the end of the world. Nothing but negativity as usual on a thread about Cadets as usual before we've had a chance to see the show. I agree with you, it may be a double standard. I know why I feel the way I do. SCV is building back up from the latest lull (2005- present) and using music from THEIR past during the pinnacle of their corps placement in 2004. So it's sorta a symbolic rise for SCV. For me at least, SCV is going to pick up from 2004 and get back to their "Glory Days". You have to remember that SCV had a major dropoff after Gayle Royer passed back in the day and that it took them the better part of a decade to get back to the top of DCI. That is terrible for a corps that finished 1st, 2nd, or 3rd so many times before 1990 ( with one 7th place blip due to a shift in drill design the ushered to DCI in 1980 that the judges didn't reward or get). You're correct that SCV has played a bunch of stuff that other corps have done and done well in the past recently, like since 2009. They've been trying to stabilize the program and get it back to the very top. This seems to be their strategy: Play "popular" and "successful" drum corps music. Do it well. Design it well. Design shows that are straight forward for the most part, clear, and will be crowd friendly. Get more talent. Rise to the top again. ....and I'm sure that once they have all of those pieces in place, they'll once again be a "Vanguard" in programming choices.... I think this is also what Phantom did to "recover" from the 2009 debacle to get to third two years ago. My thinking about The Cadets is that they're out of ideas. They have the staff, talent, and technical prowess in almost every section to win DCI most years and they haven't really suffered a lull like SCV ( Cavaliers, Madison, Phantom), but I don't think they're sure what to do. So The Cadets go tinkering with stuff here and there that's already been performed well by other corps, and it's just different. Really, I feel that lately they've been over-tinkering with music. They do so much better when they come up with stuff first. Really, they could take some suggestions for show ideas here and probably just crush everyone with a new show. Edited May 7, 2014 by jjeffeory 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wadep66 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I agree with you, it may be a double standard. My thinking about The Cadets is that they're out of ideas. They have the staff, talent, and technical prowess in almost every section to win DCI most years and they haven't really suffered a lull like SCV ( Cavaliers, Madison, Phantom), but I don't think they're sure what to do. So The Cadets go tinkering with stuff here and there that's already been performed well by other corps, and it's just different. Really, I feel that lately they've been over-tinkering with music. They do so much better when they come up with stuff first. Really, they could take some suggestions for show ideas here and probably just crush everyone with a new show. It is definitely a double-standard but as has been posted here isn't a surprise. In thinking of the last 5 years of Cadets shows: 2009 -- Yes, some music they have done before but reimagined, different arrangements and conveying a totally different theme. 2010-- No, not music they have done before. Conveying an idea they haven't attempted before. 2011 -- No, not music they have done before. Conveying an idea they haven't attempted before. 2012-- No, not music they have done before. Conveying an idea they haven't attempted before 2013-- No, not music they have done before. Conveying an idea they haven't attempted before. how are they out of ideas again? SCV has played music they have done in the past. Les Mis was done by the Cadets. Scheherezade multiple times. The Promise of living was done by them in the 80's so I guess Crown shouldn't have done it in their way? No one is dinging Troopers or Spirit for recycling. The Blue Devils have done enough PVC shows to last me a lifetime in just the last 5 years. Perhaps we should give it a chance before judging it as a repeat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) I agree with you, it may be a double standard. I know why I feel the way I do. SCV is building back up from the latest lull (2005- present) and using music from THEIR past during the pinnacle of their corps placement in 2004. So it's sorta a symbolic rise for SCV. For me at least, SCV is going to pick up from 2004 and get back to their "Glory Days". You have to remember that SCV had a major dropoff after Gayle Royer passed back in the day and that it took them the better part of a decade to get back to the top of DCI. That is terrible for a corps that finished 1st, 2nd, or 3rd so many times before 1990 ( with one 7th place blip due to a shift in drill design the ushered to DCI in 1980 that the judges didn't reward or get). You're correct that SCV has played a bunch of stuff that other corps have done and done well in the past recently, like since 2009. They've been trying to stabilize the program and get it back to the very top. This seems to be their strategy: Play "popular" and "successful" drum corps music. Do it well. Design it well. Design shows that are straight forward for the most part, clear, and will be crowd friendly. Get more talent. Rise to the top again. ....and I'm sure that once they have all of those pieces in place, they'll once again be a "Vanguard" in programming choices.... I think this is also what Phantom did to "recover" from the 2009 debacle to get to third two years ago. My thinking about The Cadets is that they're out of ideas. They have the staff, talent, and technical prowess in almost every section to win DCI most years and they haven't really suffered a lull like SCV ( Cavaliers, Madison, Phantom), but I don't think they're sure what to do. So The Cadets go tinkering with stuff here and there that's already been performed well by other corps, and it's just different. Really, I feel that lately they've been over-tinkering with music. They do so much better when they come up with stuff first. Really, they could take some suggestions for show ideas here and probably just crush everyone with a new show. I understand your point. I agree with the majority of your statements. I have a habit of going back to shows Cadets did that drew me into the activity (1995, 1996!!!! 1997!!!!!!!!!!! 1998!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), remembering what I felt when I watched those shows and how much they had me floored and how badly I wanted to march with them. I miss going to shows when I would literally be jumping in and out of my seat in anticipation of seeing the Cadets and seeing what new crazy "dangerous" drill moves and how they manage to play with all the stuff going on. But at the same time, although I have no direct knowledge of why they take the direction they do certain years, I can try to understand why they choose to perform shows they do these days. They have done so much over their history that maybe they are running out of things to do so they try to bring something "new" to the old things they, or other corps did. It's like the whole uniform debacle in 2011. Everyone was so bent out of shape (mainly alumni) when they talked about how the uniforms would be changed to fit the show, but in the end, it worked out very well. My point is that I feel strongly against judging a show before we've had a chance to see or hear it. Now in the end, most of the people who are complaining may be justified, but I think it would be good idea to take the "wait and see" approach as opposed to the "this show is gonna suck" approach before we've had a chance to see or hear it. Edited May 7, 2014 by 2000Cadet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wadep66 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 They do Americana well for sure, but the narration is going to just kill it for me. Just sayin' a running commentary is going to just ruin it for me, even if it's Oscar worthy, if it's more than a sprinkling. I base this on other shows that I've seen in the past with more than a tad. I take it you hated last years show from Crown with all the narration, talking and sappy poetry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 its more like "what book is he listening to in the car?" and "what was the latest lesson from the (not at all cult-like) Landmark Forum?" i am very, very worried that the activity has passed them by. this would be the sad irony of sad ironies. Really? "Passed them by"? Ok so I am assuming you're worried the activity has passed by SCV since they haven't won a championship since 1999, or the Cavies since they fell to 8th (?) place last year and haven't won a championship since 2006. I don't think you have much to be worried about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitmusic Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Really? "Passed them by"? Ok so I am assuming you're worried the activity has passed by SCV since they haven't won a championship since 1999, or the Cavies since they fell to 8th (?) place last year and haven't won a championship since 2006. I don't think you have much to be worried about. It has nothing to do with winning or not winning. It has to do with being a forgettable, skippable track on the blu ray and the CD. Heck, one of the Cadets most iconic, forward-thinking, and (dare I say "innovative") shows got 5th place in 1989. the point is that the Cadets will always march and play very well, but that *what* they are playing has felt very dated for several years now. the shows designed by george and company are no longer state of the art. that's what i mean by "passed by." 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) It has nothing to do with winning or not winning. It has to do with being a forgettable, skippable track on the blu ray and the CD. Heck, one of the Cadets most iconic, forward-thinking, and (dare I say "innovative") shows got 5th place in 1989. the point is that the Cadets will always march and play very well, but that *what* they are playing has felt very dated for several years now. the shows designed by george and company are no longer state of the art. that's what i mean by "passed by." So do you say the same thing about previous BD shows that had a lot of fans at finals past sitting on their hands? Or how about the shows that place below the top 6 who many people rarely talk or have passionate debates about? Disclaimer: This is no way a slam on BD or the lower placing corps so don't freak out lol... Edited May 7, 2014 by 2000Cadet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 It is definitely a double-standard but as has been posted here isn't a surprise. In thinking of the last 5 years of Cadets shows: 2009 -- Yes, some music they have done before but reimagined, different arrangements and conveying a totally different theme. 2010-- No, not music they have done before. Conveying an idea they haven't attempted before. 2011 -- No, not music they have done before. Conveying an idea they haven't attempted before. 2012-- No, not music they have done before. Conveying an idea they haven't attempted before 2013-- No, not music they have done before. Conveying an idea they haven't attempted before. how are they out of ideas again? SCV has played music they have done in the past. Les Mis was done by the Cadets. Scheherezade multiple times. The Promise of living was done by them in the 80's so I guess Crown shouldn't have done it in their way? No one is dinging Troopers or Spirit for recycling. The Blue Devils have done enough PVC shows to last me a lifetime in just the last 5 years. Perhaps we should give it a chance before judging it as a repeat? Who cares if THEY have done it before or if someone else has done "it" before.. "It's" been done better before.. That it is a different idea is simply pretentious to my way of thinking. I don't care about the concept; I care about how the music is arranged and present. I don't care about the message. So THAT is a big disconnect, and I expect The Cadets to be one of the best. Don't get me started about BD. I have dinged every corps for a programming choice in the past, so you're not speaking to me... Not trying to stir the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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