JimF-LowBari Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 1. The notion that "the horns are expensive and therefore shouldn't be implemented" is a flawed one, considering the horns likely get sold at-cost or for profit after the season is over. Even in the case of uncommon solo instruments (piccolo trumpet comes to mind), I've seen situations where Yamaha has lent horns to different corps across different years. In 2008, we considered putting a piccolo duet in the show. What horns did we play? The same horns used in Cavaliers' 2006 "Machine" production. Expense is not really a problem. How far down does this trickle down? I keep seeing that "corps" get a cheaper rate from manufacturers for various reasons. But... never see how many corps that includes. IOW - inferring all corps in statements when not all corps are included in fact is misleading whether intended or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownLeadSop Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 How far down does this trickle down? I keep seeing that "corps" get a cheaper rate from manufacturers for various reasons. But... never see how many corps that includes. IOW - inferring all corps in statements when not all corps are included in fact is misleading whether intended or not. I've personally cleaned/detailed horns for resale from Crown, Madison, Star of Indiana, Troopers, Blue Stars and a couple others that are escaping me. I am very curious about Open Class corps and their equipment policies, a situation with which I am admittedly not very familiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I've personally cleaned/detailed horns for resale from Crown, Madison, Star of Indiana, Troopers, Blue Stars and a couple others that are escaping me. I am very curious about Open Class corps and their equipment policies, a situation with which I am admittedly not very familiar. Thanks I'll take "I don't know" as a good answer as opposed to some that will argue that what's good for some most apply to all... or at least all that are "worthy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 There has been a lot of uproar recently, some positive but mostly negative, about the decision to allow Drum and Bugle corps to allow the use of ALL brass instruments, meaning that horns, trombones, and sousaphones are now allowed. However, the big question on everyone's mind, including those that are in favor of this rule change, is how exactly it will be implemented in to shows. Let me start of by saying that as a primary horn player and FMM hopeful, I still am not happy with this change. So why is that? Shouldn't I be enthusiastic about the most beautiful instrument in the world (imo) being allowed in to the loudest activity in the world? The obvious answer is yes, but I say no. So why is that? Let me first lay out the general consensus as to how this change benefits drum corps. 1. It attracts kids to the activity that otherwise would have been turned away in my opinion, this is a yes and no answer. Yes, if a corps chooses to implement a FULL trombone line or a full horn line it will attract more people to the activity that otherwise may have turned away at the fear of learning a new instrument. This especially applies to horn players in my opinion, where many teachers will dissuade their students from taking part in drum corps in fears that the mellophone will ruin their beautiful horn embochoure. But I don't see corps fielding full lines of these instruments or marching them at all if they do. They're cumbersome, difficult to write drill for, and just overall FAR more expensive than their counterparts. 2. It adds color to the ensemble Did we really need more color in the first place? This is a niche activity for niche people. You never hear people argue about adding more voices to a choir, where there are really only 4 voices, so why is there a need to add more voices to a drum corps where there are already 5 voices (mellophone, baritone, euphonium, tuba, and trumpet) PLUS snare, quads, basses, and a whole myriad of pit sounds. And if that's not enough for you, you can always add vocal performers a la Crown to add even more color to your show. Sounds like plenty of texture to me. 3. Use as Solo and Ensemble Instruments In my opinion, this is THE BIG one and the BIGGEST disappointment I took from this rule change. The argument here is that these new voices will only be used as solo or ensemble instruments for a show. Why do we need this? All that THIS does in my opinion is discredit the performers and their ability to adapt rangr and playing styles to sound like any number of different instruments. For example, take Stravinsky's firebird suite. When performed in a drum corps, the Berceuse and finale solos are almost always performed by a baritone player. For a baritone, the finale solo is generally pretty high up in their range, yet I have really not heard a bad interpretation of this solo which never fails to amaze me. It's always performed beautifully, as though it actually were a horn player playing. Now however, they can just pull any average horn player and have him play the solo in a much more comfortable range like every other horn. You might be wondering why playing something EASIER is a problem. Why not master it fast and sound amazing with less work? What if someone told the Canadian Brass not to perform Vivaldi's Four seasons because it was easier for a violin to play it? Then no one would have the opportunity to be awestruck at how amazingly they can play that ridiculous music that wasn't even written for their ensemble. The same thing mentioned with baritone can apply to mellophone as well. In the Bluecoats 2010 show they micd a soloist to sound more like a horn. But he still had to play with an absolutely beautiful tone quality to achieve the effect they wanted. Or even the SCV soloist from last year. He demonstrated not just the way that a mellophone can cut through an ensemble, but also how beautiful and rich its tone COULD be when mastered. If replaced with a horn, it would have limited the different styles of mellophone playing heard in that show. In short, the inclusion of these instruments takes away from the extreme level of talent that these petformers possess and instead allows it to be handed off to instruments "better suited" for that playstyle. If making things easy was the goal, the marching arts wouldn't exist in the first place Well those are my thoughts on this issue. Feel free to comment and contribute more to this discussion as you see fit I'll buy 2 and 3. #1 has been trotted out for every change, and I see no evidence it's done anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I've personally cleaned/detailed horns for resale from Crown, Madison, Star of Indiana, Troopers, Blue Stars and a couple others that are escaping me. I am very curious about Open Class corps and their equipment policies, a situation with which I am admittedly not very familiar. If they're feeder corps ala SCVC and BDB, they just get horns from the A corps after a year or two of usage. I think most other ones buy used sets off of World Class corps when they sell them at the end of the season. Probably get a nice discount by buying a set of horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewsquared Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 I think you make a great point in bringing up the reselling of instruments! I'm sorry that I forgot that. Very valid point! I really only see one issue with that. Not all corps march notable horn brands. At least in Texas where I've grown up, Conn was always the big dog in student model horns. Every high school and junior high in the area used Conns. That being said, it wasn't terribly uncommon, and is actually becoming more and more common, to find a Yamaha horn in the mix. They have actually been gaining a lot of respect as good horns both intermediately and professionally (stefan dohr actually has a very famous recording of Schumann's Konzerstuck on a Yamaha triple. That and the entire Berlin Philharmonic did a trial run of their new horns and were very pleased with them). But King and Jupiter? I don't believe King has ever been a household horn maker and Jupiter definitely hasn't. Therefore, the resale value on those horns would be far more limited compared to corps that march Yamaha. As far as trombones go, I can't comment because I have zero experience with trombone brands. It's just a good thing most corps march Yamaha imo, or they'd have a hard time selling their horns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) Buying horns from drum corps is starting to pick up more and more steam amongst high school programs. A lot are switching to corps instruments, so it's easier to purchase a discounted, slightly used set from a corps than trying to purchase a set on their own. Plus, you can't beat the uniformity of having all of the horns be the same make and color. Much easier to work with a single set of silver horns visually than 2/3 silver, the other third brass or other. Jupiter is still a pretty new brand, so it will take awhile for them to get traction. But the fact that they're marketing a full set of everything, from brass to percussion to guard, is really going to help them in the long run. Yamaha makes tons of great instruments, their trombones are very, very nice. And their Xeno trumpets are some of the best out there for students, and are used by a few corps out there. Conn used to be the big dog, but they've really fallen away. Most of the Conn horns that are still out there are usually older horns, or someone got a good deal on a student horn. Edited February 15, 2014 by fsubone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Our local HS has the drums from BDB. the 2011 ones in dark blue sparkle. Of course it's an all BD staff too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I found the comment interesting o the use of the bari for the Firebird solo. Baris have been used for decades as ersatz French Horn replacements in the activity. Frank Dorritte arranged in that way in the early 80's when he had the horses to play that frikkin' high on lead bari. It was a challenge, it was wonderful, but man, you can get pretty dizzy after some of it. Also quite correct on the fundamentals of the horn. Jammed with a fellow at All-States who was an extremely fine French Horn player and it blew my mind his pedals were lower then mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Yea i remember a lot more bari solos back in the day too. Or maybe i just liked them more. Always been my favorite horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.