Jeff Ream Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Entertainment, like beauty, is in the eye of the beer holder. corrected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Terms such as Art. Intellectual, Musical Academia, and Engagement have all been applied to DCI; which is fine. Terms such as Entertainment, Competitive Sport, and other commercial oriented terms have been, for better terminology, poo-pooed by many or described as nothing more than marketing ploys as it applies to DCI; which I suppose is also fine. However, Entertainment and Competitive Sport both sell out 60,000 seat stadiums across the nation with ticket purchasing fans; where as Artistic Intellectual Engagements of Musical Academia have a notoriously hard time filling up medium sized venues of 5,000 seats or less. It seems to me that DCI apparently wants ‘all’ of the above aspects, which is impossible to attain for many reasons, and y’all need to make a direction choice. If DCI is Artistic Intellectual Engagement with ties to Musical Academia we need to move DCI into smaller venues and be satisfied existing in that realm; however if DCI wants to fill up huge stadiums in Atlanta, San Antonio, Indianapolis, etc… DCI needs to leave the ‘Art’, leave the ‘Intellect’, leave the ‘Engagement’, and leave the Musical Academia’ to progressive performance artists and dive fully into the realm of Entertaining Competitive Musical Sport!!! you know what we are to 99% of the world? marching band 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 you know what we are to 99% of the world? marching band You mean like Drumline?! Wow, that's so cool!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Terms such as Art. Intellectual, Musical Academia, and Engagement have all been applied to DCI; which is fine. Terms such as Entertainment, Competitive Sport, and other commercial oriented terms have been, for better terminology, poo-pooed by many or described as nothing more than marketing ploys as it applies to DCI; which I suppose is also fine. However, Entertainment and Competitive Sport both sell out 60,000 seat stadiums across the nation with ticket purchasing fans; where as Artistic Intellectual Engagements of Musical Academia have a notoriously hard time filling up medium sized venues of 5,000 seats or less. It seems to me that DCI apparently wants all of the above aspects, which is impossible to attain for many reasons, and yall need to make a direction choice. If DCI is Artistic Intellectual Engagement with ties to Musical Academia we need to move DCI into smaller venues and be satisfied existing in that realm; however if DCI wants to fill up huge stadiums in Atlanta, San Antonio, Indianapolis, etc DCI needs to leave the Art, leave the Intellect, leave the Engagement, and leave the Musical Academia to progressive performance artists and dive fully into the realm of Entertaining Competitive Musical Sport!!!While for the sake of discussion it's easy to simply say "DCI" in vague terms we need to remember that DCI is made up of 22 very different corps that perform during the same performance. And you say that DCI needs to choose between two supposedly opposite ideas: "Entertainment Competitive Sport" and "Artistic Intellectual Engagements". And I say... why? There are 22 world class corps and 12 corps at finals so why can't each corps explore either side of your dichotomy during a performance? Yes, they can and they have. The Blue Devils and Crown provide one end of the spectrum while Madison and Surf provide the other. The make up of drum corps fans is far more diverse than the make up of football fans. A football fan can actively enjoy a game even from one that doesn't have his home team playing. But if I ask you to sit through a corps show you dislike, it's a different story. The answer to these questions is not through generalizations and categories but through variety and details.Your brake down of the numbers of tickets filling venues is also meaningless because your argument in classifying these two dichotomies has made the distinctions of those things categorized meaningless. "Entertainment Competitive Sport" you say fills stadiums but it's not because of that incredibly vague description that people fill the stadiums. They fill the stadium because it's "football" or "basketball" or "baseball" and not "women's soccer" or "swimming" which don't fill stadiums but are still magically within the same category. The people that full up "football" stadiums are different than those that fill up "baseball" stadiums. So your argument that DCI should "dive fully into Entertaining Competitive Sport" is moot because you've generalized the terms and the success of such spectacles described in those terms so much that it's practically meaningless. Drum Corps cannot be generalized and there is no intellectual or syntactical merits for doing so. Drum Corps should focus on variety and they should focus on meeting all the needs of the fans that enjoy them which cannot be split into two or even one general category. The movie industry and the video game industry both have the block buster mass market hits and the independent/indie elements as well. Some of the indie elements end up becoming major block busters. And some supposedly created block busters become flops. These industries are driven by creatives passion and of course money/entertainment. But not exclusively. The content creators have there own motives But that personal incentive does not actually affect how the audiences react to their content. We're just glad that we have content creators! I see drum corps in this way more than I see it through sport analogies. The success of these industries comes from different genres and styles and aesthetics and stories with new twists to keep the audience engaged. Movies don't just have the same presentation every year but do have the occasional remake of classics. And games attempt to find innovative game mechanics and stories while still embracing the past and it's roots. Drum corps needs to be like that and not be ashamed of the wide variety it can offer intellectually, aesthetically, emotionally through innovative and traditional means. Edited March 13, 2014 by charlie1223 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 you know what we are to 99% of the world? marching band 99%?! Implying that over 70 million people know what drum corps is!? We would be so lucky! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 you know what we are to 99% of the world? marching band Did y'all ever think that maybe, just maybe the 99% are correct in their assessment; and that the other 1% are those who refuse to realize that they go to the bathroom just like the other 99%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 While for the sake of discussion it's easy to simply say "DCI" in vague terms we need to remember that DCI is made up of 22 very different corps that perform during the same performance. And you say that DCI needs to choose between two supposedly opposite ideas: "Entertainment Competitive Sport" and "Artistic Intellectual Engagements". And I say... why? There are 22 world class corps and 12 corps at finals so why can't each corps explore either side of your dichotomy during a performance? Yes, they can and they have. The Blue Devils and Crown provide one end of the spectrum while Madison and Surf provide the other. The make up of drum corps fans is far more diverse than the make up of football fans. A football fan can actively enjoy a game even from one that doesn't have his home team playing. But if I ask you to sit through a corps show you dislike, it's a different story. The answer to these questions is not through generalizations and categories but through variety and details. Your brake down of the numbers of tickets filling venues is also meaningless because your argument in classifying these two dichotomies has made the distinctions of those things categorized meaningless. "Entertainment Competitive Sport" you say fills stadiums but it's not because of that incredibly vague description that people fill the stadiums. They fill the stadium because it's "football" or "basketball" or "baseball" and not "women's soccer" or "swimming" which don't fill stadiums but are still magically within the same category. The people that full up "football" stadiums are different than those that fill up "baseball" stadiums. So your argument that DCI should "dive fully into Entertaining Competitive Sport" is moot because you've generalized the terms and the success of such spectacles described in those terms so much that it's practically meaningless. Drum Corps cannot be generalized and there is no intellectual or syntactical merits for doing so. Drum Corps should focus on variety and they should focus on meeting all the needs of the fans that enjoy them which cannot be split into two or even one general category. The movie industry and the video game industry both have the block buster mass market hits and the independent/indie elements as well. Some of the indie elements end up becoming major block busters. And some supposedly created block busters become flops. These industries are driven by creatives passion and of course money/entertainment. But not exclusively. The content creators have there own motives But that personal incentive does not actually affect how the audiences react to their content. We're just glad that we have content creators! I see drum corps in this way more than I see it through sport analogies. The success of these industries comes from different genres and styles and aesthetics and stories with new twists to keep the audience engaged. Movies don't just have the same presentation every year but do have the occasional remake of classics. And games attempt to find innovative game mechanics and stories while still embracing the past and it's roots. Drum corps needs to be like that and not be ashamed of the wide variety it can offer intellectually, aesthetically, emotionally through innovative and traditional means. It is true that not all Entertainment Acts or Competitive Sports pack 60,000 seat stadiums; but there are hundreds and hundreds of Musical Acts and Competitve Sports Teams who can do such a thing year after year. I defy anyone to find a single Artistic Intellectual Engagement of Musical Academia which can fill those same pro stadiums. Moreover, you do not even see commercial Entertainment Acts like Blast, Stomp, or Blue Man Group, or commercial Competitive Sports like Major League Lacrosse and the United States Fencing Association leasing out the Alamo Dome, Lucas Oil Stadium, Georgia Dome, etc… year after year to accommodate just a few thousand fans at each venue. They are smart enough to realize their place in the commercial world of ticket sales is in the realm of smaller venues. I am not saying DCI should be ashamed of what it offers; in fact it needs to celebrate what it offers. But DCI and all of us DCI blow…, oops I mean diehards, must accept that it is an activity which does not, has not, and will not draw the fan base to fill up pro stadiums like U2 or the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 It is true that not all Entertainment Acts or Competitive Sports pack 60,000 seat stadiums; but there are hundreds and hundreds of Musical Acts and Competitve Sports Teams who can do such a thing year after year. I defy anyone to find a single Artistic Intellectual Engagement of Musical Academia which can fill those same pro stadiums. Moreover, you do not even see commercial Entertainment Acts like Blast, Stomp, or Blue Man Group, or commercial Competitive Sports like Major League Lacrosse and the United States Fencing Association leasing out the Alamo Dome, Lucas Oil Stadium, Georgia Dome, etc… year after year to accommodate just a few thousand fans at each venue. They are smart enough to realize their place in the commercial world of ticket sales is in the realm of smaller venues. I am not saying DCI should be ashamed of what it offers; in fact it needs to celebrate what it offers. But DCI and all of us DCI blow…, oops I mean diehards, must accept that it is an activity which does not, has not, and will not draw the fan base to fill up pro stadiums like U2 or the NFL. It is true that not all Entertainment Acts or Competitive Sports pack 60,000 seat stadiums; but there are hundreds and hundreds of Musical Acts and Competitve Sports Teams who can do such a thing year after year. I defy anyone to find a single Artistic Intellectual Engagement of Musical Academia which can fill those same pro stadiums. Moreover, you do not even see commercial Entertainment Acts like Blast, Stomp, or Blue Man Group, or commercial Competitive Sports like Major League Lacrosse and the United States Fencing Association leasing out the Alamo Dome, Lucas Oil Stadium, Georgia Dome, etc… year after year to accommodate just a few thousand fans at each venue. They are smart enough to realize their place in the commercial world of ticket sales is in the realm of smaller venues. I am not saying DCI should be ashamed of what it offers; in fact it needs to celebrate what it offers. But DCI and all of us DCI blow…, oops I mean diehards, must accept that it is an activity which does not, has not, and will not draw the fan base to fill up pro stadiums like U2 or the NFL. Seems like your confused about what you actually want from DCI. Be "Competive Entertainment Sport" to fill stadiums or accept that fact that we "Artistic Intellectual" that will never fill a stadium. "they are smart enough to realize their place in the commercial world of ticket sales is in the realm of smaller venues" Would you rather pay $100 dollars to see the Blue Man Group in Lucas Oil Stadium or in 500 person dark theater? Blue Man was designed for a theater not a football stadium. I mean sure less people see the Blue Man Group a year than watch Football in Stadiums but it really has more to do with the kind of spectacle being observed and how many can actually appreciate the spectacle at a time. Blue Man group will never fill a stadium because it is not DESIGNED to fill a stadium. Drum Corps is a spectacle that can only be enjoyed live on a football field, and on top of that only 1 side of a football field. If I ever saw a football stadium full during a drum corps show I would know that at the very least 2/3 of the audience members are getting poor experience! Generally, depending on the design of the stadium, we can have no more than 34,000 per show on the "side" that can actively enjoy a show. That is the basic cap (with some exceptions of course) for how many people can enjoy a drum corps show live at a time (and I'm being very liberal with this number since a seat on the end zone would fall in this category but be awful seats!) We're not in a football stadium because we aren't "smart enough to realize" our place in the commercial world of ticket sales. It's because that is venue and will continue to be our venue in the near future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Seems like your confused about what you actually want from DCI. Be "Competive Entertainment Sport" to fill stadiums or accept that fact that we "Artistic Intellectual" that will never fill a stadium. "they are smart enough to realize their place in the commercial world of ticket sales is in the realm of smaller venues" Would you rather pay $100 dollars to see the Blue Man Group in Lucas Oil Stadium or in 500 person dark theater? Blue Man was designed for a theater not a football stadium. I mean sure less people see the Blue Man Group a year than watch Football in Stadiums but it really has more to do with the kind of spectacle being observed and how many can actually appreciate the spectacle at a time. Blue Man group will never fill a stadium because it is not DESIGNED to fill a stadium. Drum Corps is a spectacle that can only be enjoyed live on a football field, and on top of that only 1 side of a football field. If I ever saw a football stadium full during a drum corps show I would know that at the very least 2/3 of the audience members are getting poor experience! Generally, depending on the design of the stadium, we can have no more than 34,000 per show on the "side" that can actively enjoy a show. That is the basic cap (with some exceptions of course) for how many people can enjoy a drum corps show live at a time (and I'm being very liberal with this number since a seat on the end zone would fall in this category but be awful seats!) We're not in a football stadium because we aren't "smart enough to realize" our place in the commercial world of ticket sales. It's because that is venue and will continue to be our venue in the near future. IMO, If DCI wants to be a national competitive multi-million dollar per year touring musical athletic activity extravaganza, leasing out extremely large capacity pro stadiums all across the nation, then I think they should develop a product to fill those pro venue seats; however if DCI wants to be an Artistic Engagement of Musical Academia then they need to lease out smaller capacity venues. I am fine with either of those scenarios. However I, for one, am getting fed up going to pro stadium echo chambers where over3/4 of the dome seating is empty. And as for those venues, I was not aware that there was a ‘field size difference’ between these two venues: 1) A very large capacity indoor pro football stadium where 20,000 spectators are interspersed on three different levels of one side, feel as if they are inside a rather empty echo chamber, with not much crowd energy buzz because all they can see are the few thousand people on their particular level as well as a 3/4 empty indoor dome; and 2) A medium size capacity outdoor university stadium where 20,000 fans pack a single-level home side, feel the venue is really full because the entire 20,000 are shoulder to shoulder being able to observe every other spectator as well as can see that the majority of the stadium is filled, thus creating a huge amount of crowd energy buzz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 IMO, If DCI wants to be a national competitive multi-million dollar per year touring musical athletic activity extravaganza, leasing out extremely large capacity pro stadiums all across the nation, then I think they should develop a product to fill those pro venue seats; however if DCI wants to be an Artistic Engagement of Musical Academia then they need to lease out smaller capacity venues. I am fine with either of those scenarios. However I, for one, am getting fed up going to pro stadium echo chambers where over3/4 of the dome seating is empty. And as for those venues, I was not aware that there was a ‘field size difference’ between these two venues: 1) A very large capacity indoor pro football stadium where 20,000 spectators are interspersed on three different levels of one side, feel as if they are inside a rather empty echo chamber, with not much crowd energy buzz because all they can see are the few thousand people on their particular level as well as a 3/4 empty indoor dome; and 2) A medium size capacity outdoor university stadium where 20,000 fans pack a single-level home side, feel the venue is really full because the entire 20,000 are shoulder to shoulder being able to observe every other spectator as well as can see that the majority of the stadium is filled, thus creating a huge amount of crowd energy buzz. That's a reasonable assessment but which small stadiums have a roof to prevent rained out venues? That's not a risk DCI or the corps are willing to take on the biggest show of the year anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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