fsubone Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Still doesn't indicate how much, if any are being used officially in the show. Testing sounds of a new rule doesn't promise anything. They are being used officially in the show. Words from members themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 While I don't particularly object to Madison using trombones, by your argument,* drum corps should never have played 99% of the music that's been put on the field, since almost none of it was written originally for their instrumentation. (Barber's "Adagio for Strings" just doesn't sound correct without, well, strings, which is why the piece was such a disaster for SCV 2000, Buccaneers 2005, and Cadets 2013.) But 2muchcoffeeman has already said this much better than I could. *Allowing that your use of scare quotes perhaps suggests you don't really believe the argument yourself. That's kind of a fallacy, especially considering: 1) Barber composed a choral version (Agnus Dei), not just "for strings." Actually, that was the version SCV used as their source in 2000 2) we're talking about re-orchestrating instrumentation/re-voicing a composition that is fairly simplistic in nature. Replicating a voice/color that doesn't exist elsewhere is another challenge entirely. The trombone gliss is a pretty integral color for the piece in question: a color that is literally impossible to replicate on anything other than a trombone or a synth. In DCI I think it's against the rules to replicate a brass instrument on synth (could be wrong, but that's how I remember the rule), so it makes sense that Madison would want to include the trombone voice as part of their show. Would the composition/arrangement work w/out the trombone? Probably. Would the composition/arrange work BETTER/sound cooler with the trombone? Probably. I don't fault any composer for wanting to use as many musical colors as they want. Visual designers have no limitations on props, equipment, etc; percussion arrangers have zero limitations as well. Why handcuff the brass arrangers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 ....but let's be rational for a moment.... Jdfuncorps said we should take a rational look at this and realize that we wouldn't be seeing trombones lines on the field... My head just exploded... Confirms that smug has no age limit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) To truly play Concerto to End All Concertos would not sound "correct" without glissandos, and I would like to hear trombones on that portion of the show. When Glassmen played Concertino for Oboe and Strings in 2001 I felt the same thing. How dare that flugelhorn soloist completely enamor the audience with that wonderful playing to the point where not a peep could be heard during his solo as the audience soaked it in. It didn't sound correct. Edited March 10, 2014 by LincolnV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 They are being used officially in the show. Words from members themselves. My bad, taking what I wrote from people higher up than current members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 When Glassmen played Concertino for Oboe and Strings in 2001 I felt the same thing. How dare that flugelhorn soloist completely enamor the audience with that wonderful playing to the point where not a peep could be heard during his solo as the audience soaked it in. It didn't sound correct. Do you know what a glissando sounds like? If that is a desired effect, what instrument could replicate the idea. A note-to-note transcription is just slightly different than a musical effect. But good stab at criticsim. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Do you know what a glissando sounds like? If that is a desired effect, what instrument could replicate the idea. A note-to-note transcription is just slightly different than a musical effect. But good stab at criticsim. Do you know what an oboe sounds like? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) To truly play "Concerto to End All Concertos" would not sound "correct" without glissandos While I don't particularly object to Madison using trombones, by your argument,* drum corps should never have played 99% of the music that's been put on the field, since almost none of it was written originally for their instrumentation. (Barber's "Adagio for Strings" just doesn't sound correct without, well, strings, which is why the piece was such a disaster for SCV 2000, Buccaneers 2005, and Cadets 2013.) But 2muchcoffeeman has already said this much better than I could. *Allowing that your use of scare quotes perhaps suggests you don't really believe the argument yourself. That's kind of a fallacy, especially considering: 1) Barber composed a choral version ("Agnus Dei"), not just "for strings." Actually, that was the version SCV used as their source in 2000. 2) we're talking about re-orchestrating instrumentation/re-voicing a composition that is fairly simplistic in nature. Replicating a voice/color that doesn't exist elsewhere is another challenge entirely. The trombone gliss is a pretty integral color for the piece in question: a color that is literally impossible to replicate on anything other than a trombone or a synth. In DCI I think it's against the rules to replicate a brass instrument on synth (could be wrong, but that's how I remember the rule), so it makes sense that Madison would want to include the trombone voice as part of their show. Would the composition/arrangement work w/out the trombone? Probably. Would the composition/arrange work BETTER/sound cooler with the trombone? Probably. I don't fault any composer for wanting to use as many musical colors as they want. Visual designers have no limitations on props, equipment, etc; percussion arrangers have zero limitations as well. Why handcuff the brass arrangers? I must have missed the fact that SCV sang "Adagio for Strings" / "Agnus Dei" instead of playing it on their horns. And I'm sure that the trombone is more essential to a drum corps version of this Stan Kenton piece than the solo violin is to a drum corps version of Scheherazade. SCV 2004 was OK without that instrumentation, but it would have worked better/sounded cooler if only they'd included that voice. Or maybe the difference is that Rimsky-Korsakov (and Tchaikovsky, and Shostakovich, and Bartok, and...) is more "simplistic" than Kenton? I mean, why handcuff drum corps' wind arrangers by restricting them to brass? Why handcuff any arrangers by not letting them add real strings? (As for there being no limitations on props, Boston found out last year that's not entirely true.) Edited March 10, 2014 by N.E. Brigand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Do you know what an oboe sounds like? I must not have been clear. There is a difference between a note-to-note transcription and a musical effect such as a glissando. Please tell me in your infinite wisdom, what desired musical effects(other than timbre of the instrument) does the oboe produce that has not been cued on the flugal horn for decades? When you get done with that, please tell which instrument most closely resembles the trombone glissando? Furthermore, do you know what the Concerto to End All Concertos sounds like? How would you arrange it without the glissando's throughout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Why not go ALL natural? A naked Madison Scouts would go over very well, at least in some cities. (sorry, couldn't help it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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