Brad T. Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 There are several competitive brass bands in my city (yes, in the USA) and certainly they are more cutthroat than a DCI corps to make it into. One in particular hasn't had significant changeovers of personnel in the 30 years it has performed. The majority of musicians in any of these brass bands are educators or well-known local musicians. Many have ties with the Ohio State University School of Music and got their collegiate experience playing in a brass band by marching in the OSU marching band. The OSU band though is far from a traditional brass band though. For example, the high brass uses trumpets, flugels, and Eb cornets, the mid voice is mellophones instead of alto horns, there are only American style baritones, not separate baritones and Euphoniums, and there are no Eb tubas, just Bb Sousaphones. Oh, and the instruments that read bass clef, read bass clef, unlike trombones, baritones, and Euphs in a British brass band. I can't imagine, other than for some sort of personal aspirations of the voting directors, why DCI has changed its instrumentation roughly every 10 years since the 1930s: 30s: unlock the G-D piston 40s: slip slide tuning slide 50s: rotor to F/F#/E (baritone only) 60s: piston to F, rotor to F# 70s: two vertical pistons 80s: stable period of two pistons, begin experimentation with Bb horns and third valves welded down 90s: three vertical pistons (four for contra) 00s: any key marching brass (piston valve limit dropped) 10s: any brass instrument Look at the instrumentation changes of the OSU band: 1934: conversion to all brass 1938: slide trombones replaced with tromboniums 1980: tromboniums replaced by slide trombones 1996: alto horns replaced by mellophones 1999: bass trombones replace 6 tenor trombones And that's it. I can't speak on the changes of the British brass band instrumentation, but I'm sure it hasn't changed that greatly in the past 50 years or so. To me, it seems like drum corps is an art form constantly trying to be in an image crisis. Some of the best shows in my opinion came out of the 80s and 90s. Why change for the sake of change? If something works, and the people like it, there is no reason to change it. If the people start protesting against something, then perhaps it should be looked it and reviewed. I didn't hear about massive demonstrations and wailing and gnashing of teeth because corps wanted three valves, or Bb horns, or Sousaphones. The only people whining and griping are the corps directors, not the alumni, fans, and members. Unfortunately only the directors have any real power, and they cried because they felt stifled by two valves, G horns, and not having a trombone... really? If the OSU director decided to put woodwinds back in the band, the alumni would likely stop supporting the band and petition the university to terminate the director. Something similar would likely happen in a British brass band if a director decided to add CC tubas or trumpets. Instead, DCI has perpetuated this stereotype of "keeping up with the Jonses." Corps vote on a rule, and then if it passes, everyone scrambles to follow the new rule, lest they be docked unfairly by the judges who seem to only further this awful stereotype. That happens both in DCI and DCA. A G bugle hornline will never win a championship in either because that's not what the ruling bodies want. Just wait, soon corps will be penalized for not having lines of trombones, choosing to stay with marching tubas, etc. In the end, it's not about the kids, or the alumni, or the fans. It's about furthering some ideal that can never really be achieved because the competitive circuits are so blinded by greed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I can't imagine, other than for some sort of personal aspirations of the voting directors, why DCI has changed its instrumentation roughly every 10 years since the 1930s: You can't imagine why DCI would change? Here's a few from Hop's blog posted a couple weeks ago about a similar question. http://yeaguy.wordpress.com/2014/02/17/ask-anything-mondays/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Some of the best shows in my opinion came out of the 80s and 90s. Why change for the sake of change? If something works, and the people like it, there is no reason to change it. If the people start protesting against something, then perhaps it should be looked it and reviewed. I didn't hear about massive demonstrations and wailing and gnashing of teeth because corps wanted three valves, or Bb horns, or Sousaphones. The only people whining and griping are the corps directors, not the alumni, fans, and members. Unfortunately only the directors have any real power, and they cried because they felt stifled by two valves, G horns, and not having a trombone... really? If the OSU director decided to put woodwinds back in the band, the alumni would likely stop supporting the band and petition the university to terminate the director. Something similar would likely happen in a British brass band if a director decided to add CC tubas or trumpets. Instead, DCI has perpetuated this stereotype of "keeping up with the Jonses." Corps vote on a rule, and then if it passes, everyone scrambles to follow the new rule, lest they be docked unfairly by the judges who seem to only further this awful stereotype. That happens both in DCI and DCA. A G bugle hornline will never win a championship in either because that's not what the ruling bodies want. Just wait, soon corps will be penalized for not having lines of trombones, choosing to stay with marching tubas, etc. In the end, it's not about the kids, or the alumni, or the fans. It's about furthering some ideal that can never really be achieved because the competitive circuits are so blinded by greed. DCI does not control "drum corps". DCI is just a circuit and there is nothing stopping YOU from being the director of a drum corps that is designed to your liking, hell you could even compete in DCI if you'd like (because it's all still legal). But, no. You aren't going to start up an old school corps. Why? Too much money? Not enough member interest? It's not "worth it" for you to spend your valuable leisure time on starting a new "old school" corp with only G bugles. You just want others, who obviously have different opinions than you about what drum corps should be, to do it for YOU so that YOU can be happy and can live out the glory days of 80's 90's shows that you enjoyed. And yet here you are saying it's the directors of the DCI corps that are "greedy" because they run a corps and put the the hard work, time and money into establishing their corps. The people who run DCI corps have at the very least the right to decide whatever direction they want to take the corps and just because it doesn't jive with your ideals doesn't make it any less viable or any more "greedy". It's only "greedy" because you don't like it, but I don't see it as greedy because I enjoy it and with the expansion of instrumentation it makes it more RELEVANT to the modern world of arts and music education, making it MORE about the kids. And if the DCI corps get more money from the changes "because they are greedy" more power to them! Let the audience decide what they want from DCI corps, and if the attendance from past few years is any indication, then DCI is headed in the right direction as attendance from all major venues have been increasing. Edited March 12, 2014 by charlie1223 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad T. Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Huh... I already staff a SoundSport ensemble that plays on G horns only... You're a little late to the chase there bub. We'll see what the audience wants. Only time will tell. But this guy has given up on DCI corps because of their constant program changes. Perhaps you too should staff and/or start a corps that is as avant garde as you wish. "Make people think" during the show and all that crap that most people don't give two you know what's about. Drum corps is an art form designed for entertainment. Many of today's shows are better suited as background music to a black tie gala. Please, go take your ideals of some "cutting edge modern" show and petition them to someone who cares about this new style of boring program. It's all about greed regardless of what you say. An unsustainable tour model, elitist mentality from performers and staff, and this push to make the audience "think" has pushed many the casual observer of drum corps out the door. But that is not what this topic is about. People just want to know why highly competitive British and US brass bands don't have to constantly evolve and change instrumentation to stay competitive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Huh... I already staff a SoundSport ensemble that plays on G horns only... You're a little late to the chase there bub. We'll see what the audience wants. Only time will tell. But this guy has given up on DCI corps because of their constant program changes. Perhaps you too should staff and/or start a corps that is as avant garde as you wish. "Make people think" during the show and all that crap that most people don't give two you know what's about. Drum corps is an art form designed for entertainment. Many of today's shows are better suited as background music to a black tie gala. Please, go take your ideals of some "cutting edge modern" show and petition them to someone who cares about this new style of boring program. It's all about greed regardless of what you say. An unsustainable tour model, elitist mentality from performers and staff, and this push to make the audience "think" has pushed many the casual observer of drum corps out the door. But that is not what this topic is about. People just want to know why highly competitive British and US brass bands don't have to constantly evolve and change instrumentation to stay competitive. I'm just glad I don't share in your bitterness towards DCI. It sure seems like an awful place to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I'm just glad I don't share in your bitterness towards DCI. It sure seems like an awful place to be. Most people have something that bothers them or they don't agree with, or they feel really strong about and they want to express themselves. Can't be Pollyanna all of the time. Expressing one's self isn't being bitter. So that's my take on it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 DCI is just a circuit and there is nothing stopping YOU from being the director of a drum corps that is designed to your liking, hell you could even compete in DCI if you'd like (because it's all still legal). But, no. You aren't going to start up an old school corps. Why? Too much money? Not enough member interest? It's not "worth it" for you to spend your valuable leisure time on starting a new "old school" corp with only G bugles. You just want others, who obviously have different opinions than you about what drum corps should be, to do it for YOU so that YOU can be happy and can live out the glory days of 80's 90's shows that you enjoyed. Huh... I already staff a SoundSport ensemble that plays on G horns only... You're a little late to the chase there, bub. We'll see what the audience wants. Only time will tell. Oh, nicely done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Huh... I already staff a SoundSport ensemble that plays on G horns only... You're a little late to the chase there bub. We'll see what the audience wants. Only time will tell. But this guy has given up on DCI corps because of their constant program changes. Perhaps you too should staff and/or start a corps that is as avant garde as you wish. "Make people think" during the show and all that crap that most people don't give two you know what's about. Drum corps is an art form designed for entertainment. Many of today's shows are better suited as background music to a black tie gala. Please, go take your ideals of some "cutting edge modern" show and petition them to someone who cares about this new style of boring program. Also, I already am a part of the designing and instructional staff for an Independent WGI group and a Drum Corps so I'm also putting my money where my mouth is. But I'm not going to belittle your approach to old school corps. Just because I may have a different pallet than yours doesn't mean that my motives (or anyone else's) are any more "greedy" or sinister than yours. The negative way you describe aesthetics different to yours is such a clear indication of bitterness and maybe you don't want accept that some people actually like shows that allow audience members to think about deeper meaning etc. It's not boring to me. Edited March 13, 2014 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 My sig covers this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 My sig covers this. hardly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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