bill Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 No judges needed, simply do a surprise bus stop for a foreign group of tourists that may happen to be in the area. Ask them to choose which marchy-marchy, toot-toot, bang-bang group they like best....let'em choose, thank'em, give them a hot dog and a beer and be done with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Though we have discussed that we are only speaking in hypothetical situations, the only problem with this is that most corps would not want to waste precious rehearsal time by producing a brand new show. It has been done in the past (i.e. Cadets 1996), but it could create issues if the entire organization participated in such an event. But to counter my previous statement, if each corps was forced to participate, then it would be an even playing field. Agree on both points. In the end, I'm not sure what such an exercise would really "prove" in any case. But I guess it's fun to imagine taking identities out of the mix and judging anonymous performances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 In the orchestral field, musicians for many orchestral openings are selected based on a "behind-the-screen" basis. Selectors have no knowledge of the identity of selectees. All assessment is done on a "blind" basis... no knowledge of who the performer is, what he or she looks like, and thus, no knowledge of any "affiliation" one auditionee might have, either on the basis of training, affiliation, or (possibly) influential teacher. Side note: do I remember correctly that studies show women are likelier to be hired through orchestra auditions that are conducted blind rather than non-blind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) Side note: do I remember correctly that studies show women are likelier to be hired through orchestra auditions that are conducted blind rather than non-blind? No, but blind orchestra conductors are more likely to hire show women who are not blind but good studiers. Does that help? (couldn't resist) Edited May 27, 2014 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Side note: do I remember correctly that studies show women are likelier to be hired through orchestra auditions that are conducted blind rather than non-blind? No, but blind orchestra conductors are more likely to hire show women who are not blind but good studiers. Does that help? Yes! And if there can be deaf composers, why not blind conductors? (Description of the sort of study I was thinking of.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) In the orchestral field, musicians for many orchestral openings are selected based on a "behind-the-screen" basis. Selectors have no knowledge of the identity of selectees. All assessment is done on a "blind" basis...no knowledge of who the performer is, what he or she looks like, and thus, no knowledge of any "affiliation" one auditioner might have, either on the basis of training, affiliation, or (possibly) influential teacher. That said... The site: Lucas Oil Stadium. When: a Friday/Saturday weekend in late June. The ground rules: no DCI World-Class Corps may announce their program previous to this weekend. Friday: Every Corps selects a performance position from a hat. With each performance, each corps must have MM'S perform in white shorts and t-shirts. All silks must be white. No introductory announcement of any corps is made before their performance (and that includes the preceding spring months), other than "Corps X, you may take the field." To further assist in the random and "impersonal" nature of the event, there will be no audience attendance allowed. Scores for each "Corps X" will be established and recorded based on this "blind" performance. This score thus becomes a basis on which that Corps is compared through any and all following competition performances. Saturday: Every Corps selects a performance time from a hat. However, no Corps may be allocated a performance slot which they held on Friday. All Corps will appear in uniform, and all Guard may use intended colors and equipment for the coming season. An audience is allowed, with ticket prices being equal to what an early season show would normally bring. Question: Do you think this would result in some surprises as to the currently-held beliefs in terms of Corps placement? Or...is this an extremely stupid premise that deserves locking after one or two (or no) responses? I think that drum corps has become such a plethora of information in one 15 minute show it is a little ludicrous to think that a corps would score/place exactly the same or even similar w/no visual color in their show. Visual design utilizes corps uniforms/costuming: from as blatant as Crown last year to as subtle as visual stuff Cadets might do. Even just the corps proper adds visual effect to a show, and the best designers take advantage of jacket cuts, pant colors, and other designs. This of course says nothing of color guard costuming and silk colors (not that every corps has that stuff ready for show one anyway). It's an intriguing idea, but one that doesn't seem to mesh well with current (last several decades) design trends. ** EDIT ** I just noticed that you say no audience allowed for the "blind" run. If that's the case, why bother: as a social experiment for the judges? Also, comparing a score early season to another score by different judges with potentially different show dynamic is a bit ludicrous: especially in an activity where shows are constantly being tweaked, flat-out changed, and cleaned. Edited May 28, 2014 by perc2100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted May 28, 2014 Author Share Posted May 28, 2014 For some reason, my quote tab isn't working on this computer. So...I'm referring to perc2100's posting, #26. 1) The reason for "no audience" on Friday would be an effort to ensure Corps confidentiality. Maybe confidentiality isn't the right word: all I mean is for this to be even partially effective, such calls as "BLUUUEEEE", "TROOOOOP", etc. would be an immediate giveaway, obviously. And hence, not conducive to the study. 2) I don't see it as a social experiment for judges. I simply created the whole scenario as a study as to whether a specific Corps' name, reputation, or past history affects judging to even a modest degree, even if such is done totally subconsciously (no conscious intent on the part of a judge). Again, my initial disclaimer still holds true: this is not to infer that past judging biases have taken place. Maybe they've happened...maybe they haven't. Whatever. I'm not about to cry over the proverbial "spilled milk." 3) You are totally correct in your assertion that it shouldn't...actually, outright CAN'T...be used as a point of reference for later shows. That is why I created this scenario on a "one weekend" basis. I fully realize that given an entire Saturday morning/afternoon, it would still be possible for a Corps to change its' Friday night program -- at least, to "tweak" it in some way. In the spirit of the "competition," maybe it should be understood that such "tweaking" would not take place. Cleaning, yes. Changing, no. At least not for that weekend period. Anyway, since it's not going to ever be a reality, I'll just shut up and bite the bullet. But I DO thank everyone for responding -- I've sincerely enjoyed the banter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Agree on both points. In the end, I'm not sure what such an exercise would really "prove" in any case. But I guess it's fun to imagine taking identities out of the mix and judging anonymous performances. See, I think the identities is a large part of the fun of drum corps. I'm not a Phantom Regiment fan, but I do appreciate/like their identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 For some reason, my quote tab isn't working on this computer. So...I'm referring to perc2100's posting, #26. 1) The reason for "no audience" on Friday would be an effort to ensure Corps confidentiality. Maybe confidentiality isn't the right word: all I mean is for this to be even partially effective, such calls as "BLUUUEEEE", "TROOOOOP", etc. would be an immediate giveaway, obviously. And hence, not conducive to the study. 2) I don't see it as a social experiment for judges. I simply created the whole scenario as a study as to whether a specific Corps' name, reputation, or past history affects judging to even a modest degree, even if such is done totally subconsciously (no conscious intent on the part of a judge). Again, my initial disclaimer still holds true: this is not to infer that past judging biases have taken place. Maybe they've happened...maybe they haven't. Whatever. I'm not about to cry over the proverbial "spilled milk." 3) You are totally correct in your assertion that it shouldn't...actually, outright CAN'T...be used as a point of reference for later shows. That is why I created this scenario on a "one weekend" basis. I fully realize that given an entire Saturday morning/afternoon, it would still be possible for a Corps to change its' Friday night program -- at least, to "tweak" it in some way. In the spirit of the "competition," maybe it should be understood that such "tweaking" would not take place. Cleaning, yes. Changing, no. At least not for that weekend period. Anyway, since it's not going to ever be a reality, I'll just shut up and bite the bullet. But I DO thank everyone for responding -- I've sincerely enjoyed the banter. Thanks for the clarification. I think a difficulty of this would be judges' knowing corps' design styles, marching technique, arrangement styles/voicings, drum tuning, drum company, etc. But... I think this is an interesting topic, that brings up the discussion: * do corps have specific "identities" outside of staffers? * can we pick out a majority of corps just based on marching technique style, design tendencies, ensemble characteristic sound, etc? A lot of people think stuff is pretty homogenized from a design stand-point, and I think that's true to an extent. But I also think a lot of the corps at the top are fairly unique and easy to spot/hear/differentiate: maybe not the lower-achieving groups trying to move up the ranks by emulating proven success, but the Top 10 or so corps I think have an identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) See, I think the identities is a large part of the fun of drum corps. I'm not a Phantom Regiment fan, but I do appreciate/like their identity. Well the point of the exercise ("blind judging") is to remove any possibility of judging bias. I agree with you -- identity is definitely part of my enjoyment as well -- but for the purposes of this thread we're trying to mask it. Edited May 28, 2014 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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