GUARDLING Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Current staff and members is an ENTIRELY different matter than someone who aged out 15 years ago, See , I dont think so BUT I came from and teach that past members are every bit a part of the success of the current corps and very much a part of today also. Does that mean not moving forward , no not at all BUT if past members want to feel they are still a part then they also need to remember what the corps stands for as well as what THEY feel may or may not be acceptable in public. Would one condone a past member , slugging beer, saying nasty remarks in the stands toward other corps or their own, with their corps jacket on? I wouldnt. I appreciate your thought, always have BUT I feel there's a right and wrong way to do something. He also could have expressed the same sentiment maybe without saying he was a past member, who knows maybe more would agree in a civil manner. My question would be is why did they stay then or even join. Neve rmind, more attention....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) The exact same thing happened the past few seasons with a CC FMM. Got on here, vented his frustration with the design staff, called for some heads to roll, etc... For a while some other FMMs tried this tactic. A few people actually engaged him. Turns out he just wanted what was best for the corps (duh). Everything became very civilized after people stopped throwing rocks. Listening and engaging always works better than chucking stuff. Jehova !! I remember years ago on DCP there was a FMM who gave his opinion on the current state of the corps he used to be in - and what he was saying wasn't highly critical. IIRC it really concentrated on show design. He later posted that he had been PM'd by a member of the staff/admin of that corps and by his tone you coud tell what went down upset him. (That scene from Life of Brian always cracks me up!) Edited June 7, 2014 by Lincoln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) See , I dont think so BUT I came from and teach that past members are every bit a part of the success of the current corps and very much a part of today also. Does that mean not moving forward , no not at all BUT if past members want to feel they are still a part then they also need to remember what the corps stands for as well as what THEY feel may or may not be acceptable in public. Would one condone a past member , slugging beer, saying nasty remarks in the stands toward other corps or their own, with their corps jacket on? I wouldnt. I appreciate your thought, always have BUT I feel there's a right and wrong way to do something. He also could have expressed the same sentiment maybe without saying he was a past member, who knows maybe more would agree in a civil manner. My question would be is why did they stay then or even join. Neve rmind, more attention....lol CMM and staff make your parallel about employee/employer valid. There can be real consequences. It's not a matter of whether I condone their behavior or not. Clearly I think it's better that FMMs to keep things "inside" the family if only for apperance's sake. My point is that the reactions on this thread have done nothing more than draw attention to his posts. We don't disagree about expected and preferred behavior from FMMs. But I guess we do disagree about how you should respond to it here. Edited June 7, 2014 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyrp Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I just feel as a former member of BK or any corps if you feel a need to call out your corps do so to the corps director, staff, or board members. BK members read this stuff, and if the OP really wants to build a champion culture then making the current membership feel they're not good or in something not worth while is not the best thing. It doesn't matter whether you marched a year ago or twenty years ago, when u attach an opinion that uses your corps name in a negative fashion it stings to those involved and ticks off the family as someone stated. I'm not trying to run anyone out, and sure anyone can give a valid opinion. But, there is an obligation we all have to not be irresponsible in the manner we do things. Especially, when the very group we're wanting to see get better hasn't had a single performance to justify the rant involved 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 CMM and staff make your parallel about employee/employer valid. There can be real consequences. It's not a matter of whether I condone their behavior or not. Clearly I think it's better that FMMs to keep things "inside" the family if only for apperance's sake. My point is that the reactions on this thread have done nothing more than draw attention to his posts. We don't disagree about expected and preferred behavior from FMMs. But I guess we do disagree about how you should respond to it here. actually I think we do agree..somewhat..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 CMM and staff make your parallel about employee/employer valid. There can be real consequences. It's not a matter of whether I condone their behavior or not. Clearly I think it's better that FMMs to keep things "inside" the family if only for apperance's sake. My point is that the reactions on this thread have done nothing more than draw attention to his posts. We don't disagree about expected and preferred behavior from FMMs. But I guess we do disagree about how you should respond to it here. Is it a direct parallel? No, but you have to admit its a considerably more valid comparison than a fan of a team criticizing said team on a message board. The fact is, like it or not, when you identify yourself as an alumni or member of an organization, you have created a connection between what you say and that organization. There's a reason I'm vague about what places I teach/have taught/marched on this message board. I have strong opinions, and don't want those opinions or points of view to be taken as that of groups I have been or am involved with. I owe it to that organization to leave them out of it. If the poster had not identified himself with a connection to BK, I'd have less to say about the situation. But if I were a BK alumni, or a marching member, I'd be pretty furious with his behavior. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noblegaijin Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Again, there's a difference between constructive criticism with the organization in question, through channels designed for such conversations, and calling them out on a public web board where they have no opportunity to address the issue before its in the public eye. If I were to openly criticize my clients on this web board without taking my issues to them myself, they would have every right to fire me without a chance to explain myself. I am not in the employ of the Blue Knights. There is absolutely no difference in me popping over NFL.com and posting a message expressing my disagreements with Elway's handling of the Broncos (which, for the record I would never do...he's killin' it!). The logic you handed me was, "you shouldn't criticize unless you're willing ot start your own corps", which I think we both can agree is pretty flimsy. I can see that for many folks here--in all fairness MOST folks here---loyalty trumps all else. There are many proud parents, former members, and staffers who probably didn't want to read what I had to say. That's fine. But recognize that this is in fact a public forum and this is hardly the first opinion ever posted nor will it be the last. I do not pull punches or play favorites. I'm all about getting the difficult topics out on the table where everyone can see them and discuss them. I never mentioned a single name, launched a personal attack, or insulted anyone. I tried my hardest to keep the criticism impersonal. That said, I don't think the weight of the topic was as heavy as many have made it out to be. I simply wished to illustrate that I find BK shows to be fairly bland and dismissive of the audience. I hope that opinion changes in the years to come. I think the sentiment that I should reach out to the staff is also valid. I am giving that serious consideration as well. Thanks for the feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloryah Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) I simply wished to illustrate that I find BK shows to be fairly bland and dismissive of the audience. I can understand you thinking BK's shows are bland and dismissive of the audience. Everyone has their own opinions about any particular show from any particular corps. Others might agree or disagree. That's all cool. But I think you are working the wrong angle by blaming BK's constant inability to break into the upper heights in the finals on what amounts to YOUR opinion on whether their shows are entertaining or not. I really don't think the "entertainment" factor is what's keeping BK out of those heights. Heck, back in 2012, people were all over the map about BD's show. Some loved it....some hated it...some didn't know what the hell to think because they couldn't "understand" it. BK got the same reaction for their show...Avian. But, somehow, BD got 1st place and BK got 10th. I'm thinking there was something else involved...something that enabled BD to win and BK to not win. What do you think that might be? Edited June 8, 2014 by Gloryah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I can understand you thinking BK's shows are bland and dismissive of the audience. Everyone has their own opinions about any particular show from any particular corps. Others might agree or disagree. That's all cool. But I think you are working the wrong angle by blaming BK's constant inability to break into the upper heights in the finals on what amounts to YOUR opinion on whether their shows are entertaining or not. I really don't think the "entertainment" factor is what's keeping BK out of those heights. Heck, back in 2012, people were all over the map about BD's show. Some loved it....some hated it...some didn't know what the hell to think because they couldn't "understand" it. BK got the same reaction for their show...Avian. But, somehow, BD got 1st place and BK got 10th. I'm thinking there was something else involved...something that enabled BD to win and BK to not win. What do you think that might be? And I said this way way back on this thread. BK's issue is talent and execution. They have talent to make it to the top 12, but do they really have the talent to really get up there in the top 3? You can have the most esoteric show or have the most crowd friendly show possible, but if you can't execute as well as the Blue Devils (or any of the top 3-4 corps), you're not going to make it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 There are many proud parents, former members, and staffers who probably didn't want to read what I had to say. I'll bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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