CrownLeadSop Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Well, I am definitely in disagreement with you on that. Oh well. In terms of pedagogy, Star was standard-setting. It is evidenced with the teaching tree that has sprouted from that late 80's - early 90's staff and the lineage that continues to this day. I think that's more what he's talking about than anything. The music aesthetic can be argued up and down for days, but their impact on the activity is harder to debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmjfelts1988 Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 Great commentary on the brassline and the rest of the corps. I listened in my car the other day and noticed the same stuff you mentioned. There are so many layers to the music writing it is out of control. IMO their is no weak link in the 2014 Carolina Crown. Of course I am a Carolina Crown homer with a son marching this year. Once they put a "crown" ending on the show it WILL be "out of this world", They better because The Bluecoats appear to have the best ending of a drum corps show in a long time! Not the first time Bluecoats have been brought up in this thread. I for one have always felt that the Bluecoats would be the next new hornline after Crown to win the Ott (atually, until 08 I thought they would be THE next). So it would not surprise me in the least to see them at least make a good run for it this year. Though based on where they've placed the last few years, I'd say they have some ground to cover - but not out of the question by any means.And this is really my point. This year is looking pretty stacked and with that, Crown is going to have some competition this year to retain the Ott trophy. Last year, I thought they had it in the bag from the very first night. This year won't be as easy of a slide into home plate. They are great - but they've got competiton this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmjfelts1988 Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) In terms of pedagogy, Star was standard-setting. It is evidenced with the teaching tree that has sprouted from that late 80's - early 90's staff and the lineage that continues to this day. I think that's more what he's talking about than anything. The music aesthetic can be argued up and down for days, but their impact on the activity is harder to debate. Still in disagreement - but that's okay. You're really taking a lot away from the Blue Devils of the 80s and 90s if you put Star in that high of a league of their own. I'm not taking anything away from Star, either. But they were definitely not unmatched in what they were doing brass wise. It was always unpredictable back then who was going to take the Ott between Devils and Star. They were on a very equal playing field (as evidenced by the ties and back and forth straight wins).Funny how history repeats itself, isn't it? It is still the very same brass teams duking it out to this day. The very discussion of this thread is even evidence. Edited June 23, 2014 by bmjfelts1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Well, I am definitely in disagreement with you on that. Oh well. There. Wasn't that easy? I disagree with George as well... on perception of the hornlines of the time. But it doesn't really matter. Quite frankly. I think what you are trying to articulate about Crown more than likely has quite a lot more to do with programming choice than anything (in comparison to last year). I'm not sure that many people remember... but I recall that Einstein on the Beach and Also Sprach Zarathustra were paired up on a Sesame Street interlude animation years ago (in the 80's). Crown's program choice had a great deal of familiarity and expectation to it last year. The program doesn't have such a benefit this year... not at all to suggest that the hornline is of a lower quality this year (because I'm sure it really isn't). They are as likely to win high brass as last year... but so are some others. The differences are not remotely as clear cut as any party on here would like to "prove". That is why this thread is comical to most. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Still in disagreement - but that's okay. You're really taking a lot away from the Blue Devils of the 80s and 90s if you put Star in that high of a league of their own. I'm not taking anything away from Star, either. But they were definitely not unmatched in what they were doing brass wise. It was always unpredictable back then who was going to take the Ott between Devils and Star. They were on a very equal playing field (as evidenced by the ties and back and forth straight wins). I'm really not taking anything away from those GREAT lines. At least that's not the intention. I personally just felt Star was forward thinking and Devils were doing what they were doing very very well. Which was rewarded by the judges year to year is really out of our control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownLeadSop Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Still in disagreement - but that's okay. You're really taking a lot away from the Blue Devils of the 80s and 90s if you put Star in that high of a league of their own. I'm not taking anything away from Star, either. But they were definitely not unmatched in what they were doing brass wise. It was always unpredictable back then who was going to take the Ott between Devils and Star. They were on a very equal playing field (as evidenced by the ties and back and forth straight wins). Not taking away what Blue Devils did competitively at all, and not saying it was necessarily a one-horse race. I'm talking about the legacy left behind and the impact they've had pedagogically. Beyond that, the argument could be made that the corps played beyond the criteria on the sheets (hence why the sheets change as new standards are set) while the Blue Devils were excellent at mastering what was on the sheets. It's not unfounded to say that Star was "ahead of their time" in many areas, brass included - I think many people hold this opinion, it's one of the first that was shared with me when I learned of the organization. Luckily for us, performance quality is not a zero-sum game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmjfelts1988 Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 I'm really not taking anything away from those GREAT lines. At least that's not the intention. I personally just felt Star was forward thinking and Devils were doing what they were doing very very well. Which was rewarded by the judges year to year is really out of our control. Interesting perspective to say the least. Perhaps I don't fully disagree with you at least in terms of the two approaches being very different. Which is why I find it interesting (and in no way off topic) this this thread is beginning to turn into a comparison of the Blue Devil against Star era with the Blue Devil against Crown era. Like I said, history repeats itself and what we are seeing is very much a mirror of the early 90s era, if we look through glass darkly (see what I did there?). Some good discussion happening, finally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownLeadSop Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Interesting perspective to say the least. Perhaps I don't fully disagree with you at least in terms of the two approaches being very different. Which is why I find it interesting (and in no way off topic) this this thread is beginning to turn into a comparison of the Blue Devil against Star era with the Blue Devil against Crown era. Like I said, history repeats itself and what we are seeing is very much a mirror of the early 90s era, if we look through glass darkly (see what I did there?). Some good discussion happening, finally! The interesting thing is, I think the roles have reversed this time around. I think Crown is pushing the sheets from a technicality/excellence standpoint while the Blue Devils are challenging the very content of the sheets from a musical selection perspective (at least circa 2008-now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmjfelts1988 Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 The interesting thing is, I think the roles have reversed this time around. I think Crown is pushing the sheets from a technicality/excellence standpoint while the Blue Devils are challenging the very content of the sheets from a musical selection perspective (at least circa 2008-now). I agree, though this year I think the roles have reversed back yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmjfelts1988 Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Look, here is where I'm at with this (in case I haven't made it clear enough). I was absolutely floored by Crown's hornline last year. One of my favorite lines of all time. I went into this season looking for much of the same and well,.........I was a bit.......disappointed. Maybe my opinion will change in August. We'll see. But again, not a big deal. Crown will be either 1st or 2nd in brass this year without a single doubt in my mind. Quite possibly 1st even though right now I'm calling it in Devils favor. And even if Crown does win the Ott this year, I think I still will most likely favor last year's line over this year. And no, "ToneQualityMatters", I'm not alone in those feelings. Even the judges so far...while there has been no "brass caption" yet, they've already lost twice to the Cadets. A reasonable sign that they are alreadynot as dominant as they were last year (at least yet). It will be okay though. The sun still came out this morning. And it will tomorrow. We're having a "discussion" (or at least trying to) and it's an interesting one at that. Maybe we should all just relax a bit, no? To piggy back off of a point I made in this post, even though there have been no brass judges yet where Crown has competed, the content and rep numbers in both Music Analysis and G.E. speak for a lot of what I have said throughout this thread....http://www.dci.org/scores/recap/recap_window.cfm?event=00fc4d1d-afa3-4dd2-b757-043c31bde224 ....not a good sign. Edited June 23, 2014 by bmjfelts1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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