cfirwin3 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Get a grip... besides, everyone is clearly imitating BD and Cadets, including Crown. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Get a grip... besides, everyone is clearly imitating BD and Cadets, including Crown. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery, no? How exactly is everyone clearly imitating BD and Cadets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 How exactly is everyone clearly imitating BD and Cadets? I was thinking the same thing. Regiment putting 100 chairs on the field and some mirrors to dress off of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerF Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Hating on the future of DCI and disco. I bet you never have laid your hands on a tambourine, swinging to beat of a disco superstar like Donna Summer or ABBA, or Chic, or the Bee Gees. That's not a good look to have about yourself. Just because YOU hate both of them, so what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 the usage of electronics has grown on me. But here's my issues with it. Keep in mind, I have been working in the electronic production side of the entertainment for over 15 years. So as a theatre designer and technician, I understand why they want these items, my concern is the how and what they do with them and how it is being enforced. Here's my subjective thoughts... I do appreciate that pits can now use decent concert technique. And do not need to tape their fingers in order to pound on the vibes and marimbas at a level as which to compete with the air capacity of the hornlines. Point for elex. I do appreciate some added theatrical value. Whether its artful effects the horns/pit/battery cannot produce, or adding a vocalist when need be, or thought to need be. This is an artistic activity, so why not give them the option? Point for elex. I dislike that it takes many man hours (see also sound designer cost) to find effects, edit for the show, and then edit for playback for performances. You now have to bring a laptop and a hardrive full of fx on the road with you, as well as a sound designer (or at least a really good audio tech) to re-edit and upload changes that are made as the season progresses. I dislike that it also takes many man hours and studio time to record new effect/voices/sounds and then again, edit for the cues, and then edit that into a playback system for performances. And again... see extra point above about changes made during said season. Here's an objective thought.... I dislike that there are noticable differences in type & manufacturer line of equipment to make these elex happen. To me its very noticable of who got quality speakers, processors, control consoles, and amps/EQs for usage, and who is still using a mediocre mackie system. I understand that some corps can afford Yamaha Zeno horns, versus some who are on Dynasty field brass. But in the electrix dept there is a noticable decline in the output of a $1000 amp, eq, and speaker system versus a $5000 system, versus $10000. You have taken the control of the best possible output out of the hands of the corps and put it into the dollar in this case. Whereas good musicians can make bad horns play in tune. (we did it for years with those crappy bugles) And another subjective thought... I dislike that corps feel to more is more, instead of creating 2 (which is a LOT of recording and editing time) minutes of amazing recording material and effect, and scattering them here and there, that they are basing more of their shows off of it. I think we lose some personality to the individual corps as a hole with this. My opinion... (could be true... or not... just feels this way) And I really dislike that its become such a hot commodity right now that EVERYONE feels they have to use them. Its not like adding a cymbal line, or a few more tubas in place of colorguard members. Or vice versa. Its a will this get me points? instead of refining the basics first, horns, battery, frontline, guard. Many are jumping ahead of these which, IMHO, devalues the corps members themselves. And my trully large scale issue with this... (which is the most objective I can possibly be) I REALLY dislike that as the rule is written "the board can be operated by a non-member of the corps if it is placed outside the field of competition". Of course we are going to pay for a sound person. Why would we give up a spot in any of the sections for this when you just gave us an out? Cmon, If its going to be part of the sound of the corps, it should be operated by a member. That burns me because it then takes away from the educational value that the rest of the corps has. I know there are thousands of audio students who would kill to become a part of this activity, go on tour and be the sound designer and tech for something as out of the box as our activity. I also dislike that there is not place specific for them on the field. there's not ruling on where they can and can't be. Heck, give them a special taped off area for what we call "front of house" in the entertainment industry. So they have a designated place to set up and perform from. But this also goes back to paying for a skilled audio tech. I'm doubtful many audio engineers I know would volunteer all summer, let alone pay to be a part of it. I think in the end, with this being a performance activity, what bothers me is that this helps to define that design scores count for more than execution. And it teaches that better design = better placement. It takes just a few more items out of the control of the performer, which this activity used to be centered on long ago. Just my $0.02. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I think in the end, with this being a performance activity, what bothers me is that this helps to define that design scores count for more than execution. And it teaches that better design = better placement. It takes just a few more items out of the control of the performer, which this activity used to be centered on long ago. Just my $0.02. Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) And my trully large scale issue with this... (which is the most objective I can possibly be) I REALLY dislike that as the rule is written "the board can be operated by a non-member of the corps if it is placed outside the field of competition". Of course we are going to pay for a sound person. Why would we give up a spot in any of the sections for this when you just gave us an out? Cmon, If its going to be part of the sound of the corps, it should be operated by a member. That burns me because it then takes away from the educational value that the rest of the corps has. I know there are thousands of audio students who would kill to become a part of this activity, go on tour and be the sound designer and tech for something as out of the box as our activity. I also dislike that there is not place specific for them on the field. there's not ruling on where they can and can't be. Heck, give them a special taped off area for what we call "front of house" in the entertainment industry. So they have a designated place to set up and perform from. But this also goes back to paying for a skilled audio tech. I'm doubtful many audio engineers I know would volunteer all summer, let alone pay to be a part of it. While there are experienced/ pro audio guys setting up the equipment and consulting the corps, the guy operating the board every day, responsible for its maintenance and troubleshooting errors may not be. In my experience the guy operating the board is a college student or recent college grad that is getting a lot of hands on experience on sound engineering. yeah, he may not be a "member" but it doesn't matter. It was an audio student who is operating the board and gaining a great educational experience. This may not be true for all corps but im wondering why you would assume that an audio student is NOT already running the board? Or do you actually know the makeup of all the staff members of a corps? And im wondering why you would find this to be your "truly large scale issue" if you don't know how each corps actually does it? Or is the whole not a member thing really that troubling for you? Edited July 21, 2014 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 How exactly is everyone clearly imitating BD and Cadets? The most progressive movements in recent history have originated in the practice and leadership of Concord and Bergenfield (now Allentown)... to not know this is to have been living under a rock. Crown has innovated very little. They have done well by being a cleaner and more refined version of that which has come before them. The escapades of Crown 2014 can be traced easily to BD and Cadet "innovations" of the past 15 or so years. I'm not defending the movement... I'm just telling you that you are giving Crown way too much credit. They are a recently great drumcorps... but they are playing a game that others invented. Put the blame where it originated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) I think in the end, with this being a performance activity, what bothers me is that this helps to define that design scores count for more than execution. And it teaches that better design = better placement. It takes just a few more items out of the control of the performer, which this activity used to be centered on long ago. Just my $0.02. Just remember great design means nothing without great execution. And great execution with poor design sounds like a terrible experience for members and the audience. Better design begets better execution which results in better placement. There have been very well design shows that didn't have the talent to execute at the highest level and it pretty much stands that the best designed shows are not always the ones that win. I think the sheer number of exceptions to "better design = better placement" probably means that its not simply design that wins you a championship. And I think we should all be comfortable with the fact that a combination of great design and great execution is necessary for better placement. And I'm pretty comfortable saying that a DCI world champion wasn't crowned based on the content of their sampler. Edited July 21, 2014 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCImonkey Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The most progressive movements in recent history have originated in the practice and leadership of Concord and Bergenfield (now Allentown)... to not know this is to have been living under a rock. Crown has innovated very little. They have done well by being a cleaner and more refined version of that which has come before them. The escapades of Crown 2014 can be traced easily to BD and Cadet "innovations" of the past 15 or so years. I'm not defending the movement... I'm just telling you that you are giving Crown way too much credit. They are a recently great drumcorps... but they are playing a game that others invented. Put the blame where it originated. As a Crown supporter....I agree with this guy sorta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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