How_Will_It_End? Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 But I think we can all agree that Crossmen 92 was one hell of a show. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 The"hip hop" that you actually misidentified was a K-Pop song called "I Like You". The segment features an imaginary fairy tale character you may have heard of...the Big Bad Wolf. Now, BD's show featured the music of Stephen Sondheim, particularly from a show called Into the Woods. It's a show where there are many fairy tale characters, one of which is the Big Bad Wolf. In the show, the Big Bad Wolf's major line is...wait for it..."I like you." I've seen "Into the Woods" many times, and the BBW never utters the line "I like you" in that musical. Not that it really matters, his intent in the song he sings is very clear that he sees LRRR as a delectable meal and he's trying to seduce her so he can eat her up. Still, as a big fan of that musical, it kinda sucked for me to have to watch that section of BD's show and be totally clueless as to what was going on. If I didn't read about it on DCP I never would have known what that K-Pop/Got7 song was and, since I don't speak Korean, and I'm sure most audience members don't either, I'm bothered that they put me in the position of having to scratch my head about it. All I could say when I first saw it was, "Well that was different." I had no idea what it meant and the visual kinda let me know, but I never got the musical connection. Even after I knew what it meant, I never really cared for that part of the show mostly because I would have preferred a more direct reference to the musical. Instead of "I like you," perhaps "Hello, little girl?" I don't know. It's a fine line, these things. I generally like it when designers delve deep into things and put in little easter eggs that may or may not play a huge role in the show that some audience members pick up on and some don't. Or that perhaps it might require repeated viewings. At the same time, I do think that they take it a bit far on occasion and ask too much of their audience. OR that they completely ignore the audience, feeling it makes absolutely no difference if the audience doesn't get it as long as THEY (the designers) get it and they can explain it to the judges so that the judges get it. This BD example, to me, was very close to being one of those situations. I can't even count how many people I know who had no idea what that part of the show was about, and when I explained it to them, they were still left saying stuff like, "Why make it that hard to understand? Are there a lot of people who go to a drum corps show and speak Korean??" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsd Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Can we discuss some more examples of this? When folks say things like this, I feel like I must really be missing out. This thread has covered some of the basics, but what are some other examples? Covered elements, or ones I picked up on include: - Fairy tale characters coming to life - literally coming off the page, as it were - "I like you" reference to ITW - though one has to ask if that is the extent of the connection. The K Pop feature is certainly an interesting choice to be based on such a loose connection. - the big pens and big paper (even I got that one) - "ABC", "XYZ", and "INK" spelled out in the drill (again, nothing gets by me) - corp members sitting around the storybook props during "Children will Listen" - Clara climbing through into the storybook universe - "I Wish" reference to ITW But what are the other examples of choices made in the design that promote the basic themes? I ask because a discussion like this could really help some people (read "me") look at show design differently, and learn how to pick up on the nuances. That would lead to more enjoyment of the shows, and better appreciation of the design and performance. Having marched under and worked with many of the folks who make up the BD creative team, I can tell you that every detail in their shows is designed with purpose. None of it is left to chance and the amount of detail that goes into their show programming is astronomical. That being said, there has to be "function" that allows each of the elements to be put on display at an appropriate time. If the trumpets or battery or guard have a feature, they must be staged appropriately to achieve the maximum effect. The design and staging of the elements has to be logical and appropriate, and oftentimes has no meaning other than good design. But the other elements of the show (song choice, movement from the corps and guard, costume design, use and construction of props, etc.) is all deliberate and purposeful. Does the audience always catch on to the meaning or the nuances? Not necessarily. But, the meaning of all the elements is important to the designers, and it allows them to explain their intent to the performers, which leads to better performances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 It's a fine line, these things. I generally like it when designers delve deep into things and put in little easter eggs that may or may not play a huge role in the show that some audience members pick up on and some don't. Or that perhaps it might require repeated viewings. Nice post. This part I've quoted reminds me of something the great film critic Stanley Kauffmann wrote about in his review of the 1976 film Network (the parody of television whose most famous line is "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore"). He praised some inside jokes, adding that, to paraphrase from memory, they were "the best kind: if you don't get them, you won't even realize you're missing anything". As an example, he noted that when the movie shows a person visiting the headquarters of an evil multinational conglomerate, the building you actually see him entering is the New York Public Library. New Yorkers will chuckle, but nobody else feels left out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Having marched under and worked with many of the folks who make up the BD creative team, I can tell you that every detail in their shows is designed with purpose. None of it is left to chance and the amount of detail that goes into their show programming is astronomical. That being said, there has to be "function" that allows each of the elements to be put on display at an appropriate time. If the trumpets or battery or guard have a feature, they must be staged appropriately to achieve the maximum effect. The design and staging of the elements has to be logical and appropriate, and oftentimes has no meaning other than good design. But the other elements of the show (song choice, movement from the corps and guard, costume design, use and construction of props, etc.) is all deliberate and purposeful. Does the audience always catch on to the meaning or the nuances? Not necessarily. But, the meaning of all the elements is important to the designers, and it allows them to explain their intent to the performers, which leads to better performances. This is all to the good, and every corps should be so thorough. The judges still ought to feel ready to question those purposes, or to find fault, as appropriate, with how well the purposes are conveyed: "It's great that you've given this so much thought, but the basic idea really doesn't make much sense" or "The concepts you've developed here are wonderful, but they're not coming across to [me the judge as a representative of] the audience". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrivervalleyfirestarters Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 But I think we can all agree that Crossmen 92 was one hell of a show. But better modernized.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whBreGujcyk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) The only reason I'm going back to finals for the first time since 2007 is because there's more "substance" (we'll get to what that even means later) than I've ever seen or heard before. Until recently, there were maybe 5-6 shows in the top 12 that I could really say that I enjoyed, and outside the top 12, I was lucky to find 1-2. Now, there are legitimately only a couple of shows here and there in the top 15 that I don't find interesting or impressive, and there are a bunch outside of the top 15 that are pretty #### amazing, too. A big part of this is defining "substance", which is 100% personal taste regarding design and performance. I like the current variety of visual design ideas/aesthetics. For instance, I know Madison's visual design maybe held them back a little in GE, but whoever designed their flags and did all of the staging is a genius. The balance of more traditional designs with the more forward thinking ones is a joy to watch. And musically, I am blown away by what I'm consistently hearing now from pretty much every corps. I think Crown's amazing brass in the late 2000s/early 2010s brought a lot more great musicians out of the woodwork than ever before, and now we're seeing the results. The brass sound of the entire top 6 this years was maybe the best I've ever heard. Truly incredible. Edited August 14, 2015 by Lance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 But better modernized.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whBreGujcyk funniest video i've seen this week, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I've seen "Into the Woods" many times, and the BBW never utters the line "I like you" in that musical. Not that it really matters, his intent in the song he sings is very clear that he sees LRRR as a delectable meal and he's trying to seduce her so he can eat her up. Still, as a big fan of that musical, it kinda sucked for me to have to watch that section of BD's show and be totally clueless as to what was going on. If I didn't read about it on DCP I never would have known what that K-Pop/Got7 song was and, since I don't speak Korean, and I'm sure most audience members don't either, I'm bothered that they put me in the position of having to scratch my head about it. All I could say when I first saw it was, "Well that was different." I had no idea what it meant and the visual kinda let me know, but I never got the musical connection. Even after I knew what it meant, I never really cared for that part of the show mostly because I would have preferred a more direct reference to the musical. Instead of "I like you," perhaps "Hello, little girl?" I don't know. It's a fine line, these things. I generally like it when designers delve deep into things and put in little easter eggs that may or may not play a huge role in the show that some audience members pick up on and some don't. Or that perhaps it might require repeated viewings. At the same time, I do think that they take it a bit far on occasion and ask too much of their audience. OR that they completely ignore the audience, feeling it makes absolutely no difference if the audience doesn't get it as long as THEY (the designers) get it and they can explain it to the judges so that the judges get it. This BD example, to me, was very close to being one of those situations. I can't even count how many people I know who had no idea what that part of the show was about, and when I explained it to them, they were still left saying stuff like, "Why make it that hard to understand? Are there a lot of people who go to a drum corps show and speak Korean??" Interesting post. I appreciate the viewpoint. In context, in support of what context of the show did Crown's attempt at the inverted rotating pyramid have? Not that I'm opposed, but it relates to me that they've done that before (and it was amazingly cool) not that it related to Dante or the Inferno. Well, I suppose no more than the crown did, but still, does every portion of the show have to relate to the show to be successful? Is BC somehow working in Conquest into the show worth nothing if it connects to me but doesn't support the programming of the show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 But better modernized.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whBreGujcyk Pppppfffffttttt Funniest darn thing I've seen in a long time. Gotta pull out '92 DVD and cleanse my soul now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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