Why are there so many less DCP DCA fans posting since 2012"ish&#34

[Jeff Ream]

The ease of using FB over DCP is a very simple answer. Posting pictures - easier. Always logged in on phone - easier. I don't know if DCP has an app for smartphones phone yet, but FB has had one for how long?

Add to it the ability to choose what you want to see without having to weed through what you don't.

It has 0 to do with amps or synths or uniforms.

I've been using DCp on my phone for 5 years

[Jeff Ream]

I know in about 2006-2007 DCP had some overzealous monitors who banned people from the site for crazy reasons, a lot of those folks never came back. I often wonder why I did.

in 2006-2007 you had some people that needed to be banned.

[Jeff Ream]

Do you think that, that was a selfish move? Just because someone didn't want to operate it anymore, meant NO ONE can operate it? I mean, cmon, i've never seen them live, but the vids I saw were fantastic. That was a corps that had entertainment, art, and challenge, which is the epitome of DCA all over it. I understand creating a legacy and being scared of someone else sending it down the tubes, but how many corps in DCI have been kept going because of a great alumni taking over the reigns?

right....but if no one stepped up......

[Kamarag]

OK, fair enough, but I'm still wondering what differentiates DCI's fans from DCA's fans. A lot of the prolific posters on the DCI forums, both those who usually welcome change and those who usually oppose it (most are actually somewhere in the middle) are long past their childhood, but they apparently don't feel as beaten down as you feel DCA's fans are.

I don't feel like DCA's fans are beaten down.

I do feel like DCA's fan-base is in a very tenuous spot right now. You have the long-time fans that are really aging, and you have the really new and vibrant young fans. There's not a ton of middle ground. DCA is actually managing to do a good job of attracting the new fan without alienating the old? I think they are doing a much better job that one would have expected...but it's still tenuous. And at some point, they may have to stop worrying about the older fan.

Take Clifton for example. I'm curious to see if anyone else noticed what I did (or if I'm simply way off base here)....that the Grand Prix show at Clifton in July skewed a bit younger than the Bush Preview did this past weekend. To my eye, there were way fewer younger fans there. Was that due to the time of year (band camp)? I don't know. It may have been the alumni show in the afternoon, and Bush's marketing strategy. Ticket prices might have been a factor as well.

Younger fans aren't going to gravitate to DCP unless they have a reason to. As Liz said, Facebook is MUCH easier to deal with, especially on a mobile device. Posting pictures and other media and posting thoughts is faster and simpler. Sure, it's harder to follow long-form discussion on Facebook, but I'm not sure that's bad.

As for the prolific posters, there were 12-15 folks that attended and reviewed shows here on DCP, that were all chased off by super-fans and corps staff/admin. DCP was the go-to place for real reviews (and still is on the DCI side). But the super-fan and corps admin don't seem to want real, objective, critical reviews. They want show reports. You know, like those published in Drum Corps World. There's nothing wrong with DCW, it's the style they've chosen and has worked for years. But no report will ever dig deep like they did here on DCP. It's all rainbows and lollipops there.

The bummer is, a certain number of folks react badly whenever critical reviews are written, no matter how knowledgeable or objective. The attacks, either openly or via PM that followed some of the very best reviews were toxic to the point they just drove folks away. Heck, I still have a handful of nasty-grams I received from DCA corps members and staff after being critical in a review, and I'm no where near as good (or critical) as some of the folks that used to write here regularly.

[Jeff Ream]

So aren't all these things that drive DCA fans away from DCP not also driving away DCI fans?

DCi is a more national product, and does far more outreach to the next generation than DCA does. Does DCA have a game plan to reach out to the next generation or have mini corps more involved with sound Sport or Drumline Battle?

Word is Gil is stepping down after the season. Maybe that will see some shake ups in how things are done. And yes, the DCA admin team don't do this for a full time job like DCI does. Maybe the business model needs to change some. I know a few years ago when it was announced finals were going to Annapolis, I recommended reaching out to the two band circuits I know that run events in that footprint, and work with them to drive interest. being very involved in one of those circuits, nothing came our way, and we have a ton of kids, staff and judges involved with DCA.

I'm sure I'll get hell this weekend, but current DCA PR is not on here promoting stuff like Tom P, Fred or Dave H did.

DCA IMO is at a serious crossroads. it needs to start reaching out to that next generation of marcher and fan, because the older generations are fading away. For all of the hubbub you hear on hear about the alumni show, it at best breaks even for DCA weekend. Mini corps, no disrespect, makes no money for DCA. as DCi fought for years, and still fights to some degree, it's tough to appease the older fans while bringing in younger ones. DCI for the most part has forged ahead and gone after the next generation, and recent alumni seem more engaged. Like DCi gives Indy, Rochester gives DCA a great deal, but hell, there's only 2 competitive corps within 2 hours of the place. Indy, for it's issues. sees attendance growing. is Rochester? I'm not going to either finals in their current locations as i'm not dumping my kid off on family for a few days, but I know at least in Indy there's stuff right there to do when the time comes and she's old enough. Not so in Rochester. And yes, I know winning bids don't grow on trees.

IS DCA ready to try out of the Northeast? I don't know...whats attendance in the Midwest and southern shows? And when you look at the NE, you see most of the corps in eastern PA, NJ and CT, oh and some NY too....hmmm. So why is finals all the way over there? Don't those corps have a stadium in their area they can try and work on?

It's a tough call. I don't have all of the answers. But what I do seem to see is the same ole same ole....and I don't know if that's enough anymore.

[Jeff Ream]

I don't feel like DCA's fans are beaten down.

I do feel like DCA's fan-base is in a very tenuous spot right now. You have the long-time fans that are really aging, and you have the really new and vibrant young fans. There's not a ton of middle ground. DCA is actually managing to do a good job of attracting the new fan without alienating the old? I think they are doing a much better job that one would have expected...but it's still tenuous. And at some point, they may have to stop worrying about the older fan.

Take Clifton for example. I'm curious to see if anyone else noticed what I did (or if I'm simply way off base here)....that the Grand Prix show at Clifton in July skewed a bit younger than the Bush Preview did this past weekend. To my eye, there were way fewer younger fans there. Was that due to the time of year (band camp)? I don't know. It may have been the alumni show in the afternoon, and Bush's marketing strategy. Ticket prices might have been a factor as well.

Younger fans aren't going to gravitate to DCP unless they have a reason to. As Liz said, Facebook is MUCH easier to deal with, especially on a mobile device. Posting pictures and other media and posting thoughts is faster and simpler. Sure, it's harder to follow long-form discussion on Facebook, but I'm not sure that's bad.

As for the prolific posters, there were 12-15 folks that attended and reviewed shows here on DCP, that were all chased off by super-fans and corps staff/admin. DCP was the go-to place for real reviews (and still is on the DCI side). But the super-fan and corps admin don't seem to want real, objective, critical reviews. They want show reports. You know, like those published in Drum Corps World. There's nothing wrong with DCW, it's the style they've chosen and has worked for years. But no report will ever dig deep like they did here on DCP. It's all rainbows and lollipops there.

The bummer is, a certain number of folks react badly whenever critical reviews are written, no matter how knowledgeable or objective. The attacks, either openly or via PM that followed some of the very best reviews were toxic to the point they just drove folks away. Heck, I still have a handful of nasty-grams I received from DCA corps members and staff after being critical in a review, and I'm no where near as good (or critical) as some of the folks that used to write here regularly.

for the record, i'm only lollipops in my DCW reviews. no rainbows.

but yes, I have gotten many a nasty email or pm about reviews on here. I'm sure there's still a bounty on my head in one Midwest city, and I remember one former director giving me #### in front of a ton of friends at Lewisburg one year after my earlier review of his corps.

[N.E. Brigand]

Thanks for the detailed thoughts, fellas; that was good reading.

[ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar]

As for the prolific posters, there were 12-15 folks that attended and reviewed shows here on DCP, that were all chased off by super-fans and corps staff/admin. DCP was the go-to place for real reviews (and still is on the DCI side). But the super-fan and corps admin don't seem to want real, objective, critical reviews. They want show reports. You know, like those published in Drum Corps World. There's nothing wrong with DCW, it's the style they've chosen and has worked for years. But no report will ever dig deep like they did here on DCP. It's all rainbows and lollipops there.

The bummer is, a certain number of folks react badly whenever critical reviews are written, no matter how knowledgeable or objective. The attacks, either openly or via PM that followed some of the very best reviews were toxic to the point they just drove folks away. Heck, I still have a handful of nasty-grams I received from DCA corps members and staff after being critical in a review, and I'm no where near as good (or critical) as some of the folks that used to write here regularly.

It's sad that the number of reviews are getting thinner. I've received nasty-grams as well ... both for specific comments and for omitting somebody's favorite snowflake of a corps.

As for the general discussion at hand: I miss the Renegades. Didn't care for most of their shows, but the people involved really jazzed DCP up.

[Fran Haring]

Take Clifton for example. I'm curious to see if anyone else noticed what I did (or if I'm simply way off base here)....that the Grand Prix show at Clifton in July skewed a bit younger than the Bush Preview did this past weekend. To my eye, there were way fewer younger fans there. Was that due to the time of year (band camp)? I don't know. It may have been the alumni show in the afternoon, and Bush's marketing strategy. Ticket prices might have been a factor as well.

I didn't take notice, and you very well could be correct, but that would be a change from previous years, when the July Clifton show (the Grand Prix) has traditionally been.... well.. a "traditional" DCA audience, skewing older.

[BigW]

When I review, I feel the need to be reasonably diplomatic. Even when I have been, an individual got banned for their responses to something I said and tried to pick a fight. I guess some folks would have quit after that. I've dealt with worse. Let's put it this way. there are a certain few folks in this activity on the Corps and scholastic end of things that caused me to lose all the sincere respect I did have for them after 15 to 30 seconds of their antics. They all knew better. They're all adults. I don't sit and wait for apologies.

Part of it is this:

If you looked at my notebook for a show, there's usually a laundry list of performance issues. Other people do execution/performance critiques here in far more detail, why repeat? I also figure the Judge's sound files also cover it. The corps members get all of that from the judges and the staff left and right all day. It can be a freakin' drag. Been there. Done it.

When I go to a DCA show I'm paying to go in and enjoy myself and see some solid performances and look and see if I find some new ideas that are thoughtful and interesting. I'm not being paid that night to provide cogent and incisive critique. There is a serious difference.

I sort of pattern myself off of Fred Mowbray (now there's a name from the past) who was one of the main DCA writers BITD- he was always around at the shows, very accessible, and many of us at Westshore always appreciated his support and would talk to him. It was good to hear a different and kind voice that was encouraging, one that told us to keep working to be great- that what we were doing was worthwhile.

If I can do ten percent of what he did for us BITD in that way for those who are out there now in terms of encouragement- I would be very happy and satisfied. Yeah, some corps have real design and performance problems, but can I appreciate what they do, enjoy it, and want to watch it again without feeling like the Coyote in the trap and wanting to get away? Yeah, I can 97+% of the time.

Price may have had something to do with Clifton, yes. In my case, I'm finally starting to make real money in my life and could afford it.

I remember BITD going to DCI East Prelims because I could afford the Prelims ticket, see everyone all day, good and bad, and learn and experience it with great seats because it was first come first served and I would get there EARLY. Now- if you transplanted that kid to today, he couldn't afford to go both days, and would end up watching from the goal line on the second row wondering if there was enough cash in his wallet to grab a double cheeseburger from Mickey D's on the way back and afford the gas to get home.

Solutions? Jeff hit on one. There needs to be more of a serious and aggressive liaison and outreach to the real feeder groups for DCA: the competitive scholastic scene. Most kids know about DCI, very few are aware of the opportunity DCA can provide them.

Edited August 25, 2015 by BigW