garfield Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) For the purpose of public discussion, consider this a yes/no question, then. Does your data compare subscriptions from 2014 to 2015, and find that they increased? I am not ruling out show design as potentially affecting attendance to a noticeable degree, but I do not think it explains a 2015-specific surge. This directional change was instituted in 2011. If anything, its results would be seen spread over the past 4-5 years. That is interesting, and sad. But at the same time, I think what I said still stands. Most judges were not spacing corps that far apart before this edict of yours, so what has changed? An example might help illustrate what I refer to. Say Blue Devils are winning all but one caption. Caption ties are discouraged, so each caption won adds to their lead. Judges limit their margins to 0.4 as suggested under this edict, so say the average is only 0.2. That adds up to 0.8 or 0.9 in the total score. For that one caption loss to make scoring close, it has to amount to at least 0.6 in total score (0.6 for a GE caption, 1.2 for other captions due to averaging). I think we established in a recent thread (maybe this one) that GE will never be that much of an outlier. For the other captions, a 6th or 7th rank is required to get a 1.2 spread behind the leader. To put this in more relatable terms, say Carolina Crown wins all captions except percussion. If their line can keep their rank at 5th or higher, a 1.2 spread is not going to happen. For corps to score close together, they need to overlap in multiple captions. Sorry, I'm not going to post any detail until announced officially. That Cesario announced his initiative in 2011 doesn't mean that corps embraced or even improved their productions according to his edict beginning that year. I think it's more likely that only in the last couple of those years has there been an activity-wide improvement visible to most fans (re-emphasize the average "fan-age" of today's fans). I still contend this is the single biggest contributor to attendance increases in 2015. To your last, you hit the nail on the head: The only thing "tightening" the scores did was increase the perception of a close competition. In this regard it was brilliant, IMO. As was said to me: "We have three numbers to the right of the scoring decimal point. We should use them." IMO, it wasn't sad, it was a terrific draw to fans of the competition of drum corps. As I perceive it, these two changes by DCI and the corps attracted both fans of the performance and of the competition this season. The other exogenous factors of an improving economy and consumers willingness to reward themselves after 6 years of austerity likely played their part on the margins of attendance but, even if true, the attraction to the stadium had to win out against other entertainment options that consumers and/or fans could choose to spend on. Edited September 3, 2015 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Sorry, I'm not going to post any detail until announced officially. That Cesario announced his initiative in 2011 doesn't mean that corps embraced or even improved their productions according to his edict beginning that year. I think it's more likely that only in the last couple of those years has there been an activity-wide improvement visible to most fans (re-emphasize the average "fan-age" of today's fans). I still contend this is the single biggest contributor to attendance increases in 2015. To your last, you hit the nail on the head: The only thing "tightening" the scores did was increase the perception of a close competition. In this regard it was brilliant, IMO. As was said to me: "We have three numbers to the right of the scoring decimal point. We should use them." IMO, it wasn't sad, it was a terrific draw to fans of the competition of drum corps. As I perceive it, these two changes by DCI and the corps attracted both fans of the performance and of the competition this season. The other exogenous factors of an improving economy and consumers willingness to reward themselves after 6 years of austerity likely played their part on the margins of attendance but, even if true, the attraction to the stadium had to win out against other entertainment options that consumers and/or fans could choose to spend on. Edited: NM...stupid question first placed.... Edited September 3, 2015 by HornTeacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 No exactly: DCI/Disney trotted out Walt's frozen head to make the call Hmmmmmm.....didn't know that Ted Williams was on the panel, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Hmmmmmm.....didn't know that Ted Williams was on the panel, also. I guess those two are the head judges. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 In light of recent (within the past 15 minutes) developments...if there are those who wish for the "power" to return to the performers -- then maybe Judge Richard M. Berman should be the Chief Executive of DCI. Berman has a reputation of playing " hardball ". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 For the purpose of public discussion, consider this a yes/no question, then. Does your data compare subscriptions from 2014 to 2015, and find that they increased? I am not ruling out show design as potentially affecting attendance to a noticeable degree, but I do not think it explains a 2015-specific surge. This directional change was instituted in 2011. If anything, its results would be seen spread over the past 4-5 years. That is interesting, and sad. But at the same time, I think what I said still stands. Most judges were not spacing corps that far apart before this edict of yours, so what has changed? An example might help illustrate what I refer to. Say Blue Devils are winning all but one caption. Caption ties are discouraged, so each caption won adds to their lead. Judges limit their margins to 0.4 as suggested under this edict, so say the average is only 0.2. That adds up to 0.8 or 0.9 in the total score. For that one caption loss to make scoring close, it has to amount to at least 0.6 in total score (0.6 for a GE caption, 1.2 for other captions due to averaging). I think we established in a recent thread (maybe this one) that GE will never be that much of an outlier. For the other captions, a 6th or 7th rank is required to get a 1.2 spread behind the leader. To put this in more relatable terms, say Carolina Crown wins all captions except percussion. If their line can keep their rank at 5th or higher, a 1.2 spread is not going to happen. For corps to score close together, they need to overlap in multiple captions. IMO, programming changes take time to sink in. it could be a one off at first, but as the trend continues to develop and fan out, it's noticed by more. If anything, this year I noticed more returning fans than necessarily newbies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Any further questions from anyone here on DCP about the predominance of the Show Design ( GE ) over that of the Performers performance execution on today's DCI sheets ? yes. you assume because it was said in 1992, that makes it so now? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 No exactly: DCI/Disney trotted out Walt's frozen head to make the call well ok...what they did is they took it to a studio in Cali where a team of writers/singers voted, ala Saving Mr. Banks. cartoon penguins optional Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Any further questions from anyone here on DCP about the predominance of the Show Design ( GE ) over that of the Performers performance execution on today's DCI sheets ? ( Time to visit your favorite haberdasher BRASSO. 7 1/2 is no longer big enough.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) yes. you assume because it was said in 1992, that makes it so now? Big B, obviously, will give a Reader's Digest (one could only hope) reply, but, I'd say the passing decades may not have changed this sentiment in the minds of others. With the current sheets, those thoughts might be even more relevant today. Edited September 3, 2015 by Ghost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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