BRASSO Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The other most notable typical characteristic of these mass murderers is....... " loner ". Many tend to be lone wolfs that have little to no group participation, nor lengthy childhood to adult personal friendships, etc with others that might've been able to intervene to persuade these lone wolf, mentally unbalanced, males to not go " postal " like this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 We know nothing about this shooter. So tread lightly on the assumptions. This is a topic that probably shouldn't be on this forum 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) . I wish the media would stop chasing the reasons why he did it. Why give him the satisfaction of the public knowing his motivation? There is no explaining a heinous act like this! No reason is sufficient. Agree. It sort of reminds me of the Prison Psychiatrist in order to get some deep meaning insights asked a long time bank robber in a Prison session ... " why do you rob banks ? ". The bank robber looked at the Psychiatrist with mild curiosity and replied " You are asking me why I rob banks ? I rob banks because thats where they keep a lot of the money ". Edited October 2, 2015 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) We know nothing about this shooter. So tread lightly on the assumptions. This is a topic that probably shouldn't be on this forum The OP (me) intended for the discussion to center around whether or not participation in drum corps could be of value to young men (or women) at risk of such heinous behavior. As has been mentioned, being a loner is a factor with those who would commit these shootings. I know a former marching member who is rather a loner, is a bit socially backward but because of his participation in the marching arts was able to come out of his shell a bit and form and maintain some strong friendships. I'm not trying to imply he would have wielded guns and open fired on innocent people but for his marching...no. I guess I'm just looking for some comfort and came to this forum hoping to find people who might be willing to discuss how drum corps - in addition to other similar youth activities that stress positive social behavior - might be of value to our troubled young people - if we could just get them involved in it! Edited October 2, 2015 by luv4corps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The OP (me) intended for the discussion to center around whether or not participation in drum corps could be of value to young men (or women) at risk of such heinous behavior. Yes, D&BC might benefit anyone who participates. But, those who take part usually have the means to come up with most of the money required for Nov. to Aug. involvement and they have the work ethic and motivation to do whatever it takes to participate. I'm guessing many of these shooters over the years would not be interested in putting in the sweat equity to make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The OP (me) intended for the discussion to center around whether or not participation in drum corps could be of value to young men (or women) at risk of such heinous behavior. As has been mentioned, being a loner is a factor with those who would commit these shootings. I know a former marching member who is rather a loner, is a bit socially backward but because of his participation in the marching arts was able to come out of his shell a bit and form and maintain some strong friendships. I'm not trying to imply he would have wielded guns and open fired on innocent people but for his marching...no. I guess I'm just looking for some comfort and came to this forum hoping to find people who might be willing to discuss how drum corps - in addition to other similar youth activities that stress positive social behavior - might be of value to our troubled young people - if we could just get them involved in it! You could have presented your topic without specifically mentioning the shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 To your first point, I am specifically speaking of the type of mass shooter who is American, targets public places and kills randomly, usually leaving a social media trace and a long list of red flag behaviors. In no way am I saying only young white males kill. To your second and third points (in reverse order), I don't believe this was an attack against Christians per se. He also shot people who said they weren't Christians - but in the leg. While I respect your concern that people of faith are being targeted, I am not seeing that as any sort of true motivation in this event. I think it was something convenient that the shooter could be angry about in the moment and use as a scapegoat - but this could have been any group, any culture, any religion. He is also being linked via social media to white supremacy and the IRA. None of it adds up. He was wacko and the reason he did this is immaterial to that fact. I wish the media would stop chasing the reasons why he did it. Why give him the satisfaction of the public knowing his motivation? There is no explaining a heinous act like this! No reason is sufficient. I hope my post was clear in stating that I am not trying to imply that drum corps could have saved him, only that perhaps it could help steer another at-risk kid onto a better path. Any organized activity that promotes society-friendly behaviors could do the same. Thank you, luv4corps. Throughout my life, I have always been interested in the history of the activity, and have constantly sought to become familiar with as much drum corps related information as I possibly could. As I have read various accounts of the pre-DCI days, it became evident to me that, in many cases, corps were built as extensions not only of VFWs and American Legion posts, but even more extensively from Catholic Church parishes in urban settings. This, by many accounts, was done to provide the youth of parish "sons and daughters" (and yes, those within it's reaches) with a source of activity which would be an alternative to a "juvenile delinquent" population within those geographic settings. An activity to keep them off the streets, and provide a positive outlet for their energies (which, in many cases, often resulted in the occasional "rumble" in the post-competition parking lot ). That aside, it DID, in not only my estimation but also based upon the later testimony of those involved at the time, was remarkably successful in its' aims and goals. Did it "save" everyone? No. But I would be willing to wager a good deal of my hard-earned capitol that it resulted in a good deal of success. One person cannot save the world. Nor can one individual, obviously. BUT...I think that, based upon what I've read, the activity provided a positive legacy to something which later resulted in something different than what was commonly seen in West Side Story. It has been said that it takes a village to raise a child...and that may very well be true. But I would submit that it is possible for an activity to raise a child. And in terms of Drum and Bugle Corps, I feel that there is enough anecdotal evidence to support such a claim. Oh, if I only possessed even half the understanding, patience, and fortitude exhibited by those early leaders. We live in an age where the words understanding, patience, and fortitude are misinterpreted as being "weak." However, they are not. They are strong. They are not meek. They are not without exacting expectation. They DO represent a guiding principle which, I feel, is sorely missed in today's society. End of sermon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The other most notable typical characteristic of these mass murderers is....... " loner ". Many tend to be lone wolfs that have little to no group participation, nor lengthy childhood to adult personal friendships, etc with others that might've been able to intervene to persuade these lone wolf, mentally unbalanced, males to not go " postal " like this. I have also recently read and heard testimony that such behavior has become the accepted form of "masculine" behavior among young males. "Stand up and be a man" has been replaced with "Stand up wreak havoc" for those desiring to express their supposed strength. This is not only a sad indictment upon our current society...but an ultimately unsettling and dangerous one as well. I would surmise that the individuals involved have suffered from a lack of a positive and ethical role model under which they could learn -- which is equally unsettling and dangerous. We are now witnessing firsthand just how tragic this has become. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It all starts and ends with the breakdown of the family, in my opinion. I've come to believe that, far from supporting the family, the modern State actually is at odds with and openly opposed to the family. There's a war going on for our children. Who guides and molds them, the family or the state. And what values do kids learn from the state? To value victimhood. To be selfish and feel entitled. To feel like you deserve things. To walk around with a chip on your shoulder. To have grievances. The polar opposite of the values of giving, hard work and self-sacrifice learned in drum corps, in the church, in the family. End rant 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Tuma Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I certainly hope that talking about how drum corps might be of value to at-risk kids is not political. I think a study on the youth that have participated in the South Shore Drill Team in Chicago would be very fascinating. That organization serves an at risk demographic in an at risk area of the city. How many finish high school? How many go on to higher education? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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