N.E. Brigand Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Complex - a word that has a definition, but can be applied different;y I guess. Meaning, what seems complex to me, may not be complex to you (generally "you", not a specific you). Example - in my opinion, the first 3ish minutes of that show, the members moved within a 5-10 yard area from their original starting spot. (with a few exceptions of course). That does not seem complex to me. Just my opinion though.... Just because A is more complex than B doesn't mean that it's better designed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 While I have no opinion on this specific band, I will say this much. There are 100 times as many marching bands. All the DCI designers, plus many multiples of others, design marching band shows. I have no doubt that someone could find one show that can compare to DCI in some aspects of design, from among the thousands of marching band shows to choose from. Right. There is so much work available for designers in high school that there are even a few people who apparently make their living selling packages of arrangements and even drill to high schools. This year, I saw two Ohio bands perform Gary Gilroy's "Mana Tiki" and two more perform his "This Just In", the latter complete with identical audio clips (of Walter Cronkite and other news figures). And two more bands performed the exact same arrangements of Steely Dan music. (In a really odd coincidence, not tied to a particular designer, as far as I know, three other Ohio bands, each performing what were in all other respects very different shows, each used quotation from Abraham Lincoln's 1864 letter to Lydia Bixby, expressing condolences on her loss of five sons in the Civil War--though it turned out later this was an error, as two of them survived the war. Two of those shows were performed in different BoA competitions.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Which is funny, because it's a fairly common thought in non-BOA competing band educators that all it takes to wow BOA judges is a tarp and a synth. That's just true enough to be a pretty funny comment.* That said, I've found there's a bit more variety in BoA presentation than I initially thought--although I'm not sure how well a band could do there (or in any competitive circuit) without a pit or guard, which are two elements that many a non-competitive band eschews. *Not as funny as the best (sick) joke I heard today: "For Russian Thanksgiving, Turkey shoots you." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Compared to other experiences of Grand Nationals, I found the show designs not as intricate nor complex, particularly visual. U Mass and Ohio State had greater depth than some finalists. BOA the last few years has leaned heavily toward the musical effect, particularly with woodwinds and other non-brass instrumentation. Plus ça change . . . I remember my high school band director in the late 1980s, when the band was relatively small (about 100 members) but in a growing community, telling us he looked forward to the day when he would have enough clarinets on the field that they could play well and be clearly heard. And he was a trombone player by training with no aspirations of ever taking the band to BoA. Interesting that you mention Ohio State. Elsewhere I noted that Marian Catholic H.S., the perennial BoA finalist who finished 8th this year, seemed inspired by OSU this year when the drill of "String Theory", their Petrouchka-driven show, included the form of a giant puppet waving its arms and legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) That may be the view of some in OMEA, but I think the number who do feel that way is far less than when OMEA first ventured into marching band competitions (1980). OMEA sanctions over 60 competitions (rate/rank) each fall, along with the State Finals. Granted the OMEA State Finals are a "ratings only" event, but I do not think the great majority of OMEA directors and adjudicators have negative views of DCI or competitive music. OMEA offers directors with another option for their students to take part in. Many directors opt to do ONLY OMEA shows, but there are many that ALSO do BOA, Mid-States, USSB as well. I think the numbers will bear me out that the majority of band directors in Ohio (and across the country) actually do NOT participate in ANY type of evaluation events. That actually concerns me more. OMEA is inconsistent on this subject, that's all. Probably because the organization comprises hundreds of members with different points of view. Last year's chair of OMEA's "marching band affairs", i.e., the person who directly oversees the ratings-only state finals, is the director of a band whose webpage touts the number of times they've been named "grand champion" at local competitions (quite rightly, I'd say). This year's marching band affairs chair is the director of a band that has regularly competed in BoA for years. For a counter-example, see the very disparity you describe: local events are competitive but state finals are not. for another: while all bands in the local competitions receive scores, those numbers are never made public. By the way, while your general description of a number of Ohio bands competing under the auspices of more than one adjudicating body (OMEA, MSBA, BoA) is quite correct, I don't know of any Ohio bands that participated in a US Bands competition this year or last. If you do, please tell me, as I have tried to compile a full record! And your last point is spot-on, in my view. There are about 800 high schools in Ohio. Probably at least two-thirds of those have bands, but only 240 compete. Edited November 24, 2015 by N.E. Brigand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I understand what you're saying. It's art, let it be free! And yet, and yet. Before I pulled out the stopwatch, it struck me that Grove City's show, which overall felt less beautiful to me, visually and musically, than Broken Arrow's show, was in some more true to "marching band". If Broken Arrow didn't march and play at all, nobody would dispute that point. Everyone would agree that a band that never marches and plays isn't a marching band, right? What about a band that marched and played for only 5% of its show? 10% 15%, 20%? I'm sure there is no one right percentage of time that's needed to make a marching band a marching band. Given that I said in my very first post to this thread that Broken Arrow was my favorite high school marching band this year, apparently what they're doing is just enough for me. So why not figure out how much that is? 32% seems to have done the trick in my case. Others' tastes may vary. Interesting. A "Percentage More Marching Band" than . . . what? A percentage requires the other definition: If BA marched 40% it would be more "marching band" (in the GC style) than . . . What is BA when they're not marching? If you ask BRASSO, they're all 100% marching bands. Grove City was infinitely more enjoyable for me. To my viewing, they're the Cadets in design and Broken Arrow was a poor example of Phantom or BAC or even Academy. Well, I didn't say "percentage more marching band". I said that each viewer will presumably have some minimum "percentage of time" that a group must play while moving to be considered a marching band (or drum corps). And then I set out to determine what seems to be enough time for my tastes. Since I loved Broken Arrow's performance, and since Broken Arrow only moved while playing for 32% of the time, it seems that is the most time I demand. However, you you seem to be suggesting that perhaps I'm not evaluating Broken Arrow strictly as a marching band--is that right? You may have a point there, and I will have to give it some more thought. If The Cleveland Orchestra, who doesn't move at all while playing (i.e., 0%), and thus must not be a marching band or drum corps, nonetheless parked themselves on a football field and played a ten-minute show at, say, DCA championships (in lieu of member-age requirements), they ought to lose to Excelsior, who had the lowest score at this year's prelims, even though TCO, considered as a musical ensemble, would, as I think almost all observers/listeners would agree, top every marching band and drum corps right on up to Blue Devils. Or should they? (By the way, did you see the professional orchestra that played with the University of Michigan marching band earlier this year? Or would watching that burn your eyes?) As jwillis reminded us last summer, drum corps (and marching bands) used to feature a "concert number", and I don't think anyone argues that by standing still for so long, they no longer qualified as drum corps (and marching bands)--or that they were any less deserving of those names than the groups who perform today. Well, I don't have the answers, but as I previously noted, I try not to be especially dogmatic while at the same time desiring to hold onto some standards and definitions. And to clarify my opinion: I did not mean to give the impression that Broken Arrow was vastly more enjoyable to me than Grove City, only that they were somewhat better. Broken Arrow received a final score of 97.50 on BoA's sheets. That's maybe a little higher that I would say, imagining 100 to be the best that a high school marching band can achieve in 2015. Meanwhile, in their final scored performances on OMEA's 300-point sheets (a week before the non-scored state finals), Grove City probably earned a score of about 290, or 96.7. Definitely too high, for me. I would say that Broken Arrow deserves, say, a 96, and Grove City a 92, on the imaginary scoring sheets in my mind that blend the best of both worlds. (On those sheets, Blue Devils get about 135, if that helps for comparison. But I'm still working all this out.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 This current DCP story seems to negate much of the OP's original premise. Just proves, never confuse a theory with facts. Your post seems to have been largely overlooked. For those who didn't follow the link: it's to a page on Carolina Crown's website where the corps touts how its staff were involved with the top five bands at BoA Finals (Broken Arrow, Avon, Hebron, William Mason, and Carmel), as well as with several bands that did well in BoA regionals or in other "circuits". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Final question: how do we develop more DCI programs with this type of resources and stability? Tax-payer money? Probably. That band I consider to be the best on the OMEA circuit, Grove City, has appeared at and received a Superior rating at every single State Finals since that event was inaugurated in 1980 . . . except 2009, because a school levy failed that year and all extracurricular activity was cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 As it should be (along with Spanish, Russian, and Hindi!) Wasn't it in Princeton that they set up a Charter school catering to Chinese students, with dual English/Mandarin instruction? If that was in response to my post, it's Italian, not Latin. There is the Yinghua International school in Princeton...a private school. The Charter school ran into issues and is not open. http://www.yhis.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 A compelling case can be made however that Mandarin in the future could very well be the language of the world's " money and finance ". As such, some of the most forward looking , progressive schools ( some even public schools ) are offering Mandarin as an elective ( even in some non Asian- American communities in the US ). there's nothing wrong with that - and certainly that specialized skill has a valuable role. But Mandarin won't ever become the world's default language of money and finance unless a ton of change goes on... A ton of money flows through 2 places, London & NYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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