N.E. Brigand Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) It isn't a circuit in the sense that bands compete at BOA shows week in and week out. Most BOA bands attend only one regional. A few will do a regional and Grand Nationals, but still compete in local circuits the rest of the time. Fair enough. Personally, I would just call that a more limited circuit, but I can see the counter-argument that one performance does not a a circuit make, and I don't think we need to quibble over terms. In OMEA, while some bands compete nearly every week, many have similarly limited schedules, appearing at just two or three shows. I'd certainly call DCI a circuit, and in some ways, BoA is more like DCI than OMEA is like DCI, in that a band doesn't need to "qualify" in order to appear at BoA's championships. A band just needs to be one of the first 96 to sign up and pay the registration fee. The Mid-States Band Association (southwest Ohio, southeast Indiana, northern Kentucky) operates in much the same fashion: there are a number of local shows, but any band who wishes to appear at the championships can do so regardless of how they'd previously fared. In OMEA, however, you don't get to appear at "finals" (in which 130 bands played this year, and I saw them all) unless you've qualified at one of those 60+ local events that oldbandguys mentioned. I know some other states/circuits have regional and/or semifinal events prior to championships, rather in the manner of athletic playoffs. And in Texas, so I have heard, each division on the state circuit only has a finals competition every other year. Edited November 20, 2015 by N.E. Brigand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shempy Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 "Non-BOA competing band educators" is too nebulous to evaluate for voracity because there are about a bazillion non-BOA circuits. To what competitive circuit are these non-BOA's comparing BOA? I didn't want to ruffle any feathers by being specific, but I was specifically talking to educators involved with ISSMA, the "regular season" circuit for bands including Avon and Carmel, perennial BOA powerhouses for the past several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I think that happens when local circuits have a number of BOA participants. Years ago it was the same with WGI. More and more circuits ( many reluctantly at the time ) only adapted the WGI rules or sheets etc etc because more and more interest by it's members. Pretty significant involvement by Indiana bands in BOA over a long history. But ISSMA (the sanction of the state championships and it's pathway) isn't about to go BOA sheets anytime soon. They are a prideful organization and, for the most part, have good reason to be such. But I understand what you are getting at. Our percussion and color guard circuits rubber stamp the WGI rulebook. The difference is that some local/state/regional circuits are just as mature as BOA and have already put together good practices and programs. The indoor circuits either came up with WGI, or are even younger than WGI so co-opting that knowledge and experience as a standard makes more sense. Edited November 20, 2015 by mingusmonk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I didn't want to ruffle any feathers by being specific, but I was specifically talking to educators involved with ISSMA, the "regular season" circuit for bands including Avon and Carmel, perennial BOA powerhouses for the past several years. The same educators getting dominated by Avon, Carmel and identical powerhouses in ISSMA as well? :D Edited November 20, 2015 by mingusmonk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 And in Texas, so I have heard, each division on the state circuit only has a finals competition every other year. This is true. The UIL format actually switched while I was in high school - it was purely a cost cutting measure that caught on. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 It seems to me that BoA can as well be described as "an established itinerary of events or venues used for a particular activity, typically involving public performance" (to use the relevant definition that comes up when I Google the term) as can any other organization that runs band or corps competitions. I don't think BOA considers BOA to be a circuit, either. The website in listing BOA events says they have the Bands of America Grand National Championship and Bands of America Regional and Super Regional Championships. It isn't a circuit like USBands, TOB or NESBA would be, with a variety of local-shows plus circuit champs. It is "just" pick and choose single shows spread around the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I don't think BOA considers BOA to be a circuit, either. The website in listing BOA events says they have the Bands of America Grand National Championship and Bands of America Regional and Super Regional Championships. It isn't a circuit like USBands, TOB or NESBA would be, with a variety of local-shows plus circuit champs. It is "just" pick and choose single shows spread around the country. There was always debate what determines a circuit. BITD at the inception of WGI some insisted on circuit ( mostly locals ) then there was an association ( like WGI). With that mindset I would call BOA an association. Edited November 20, 2015 by GUARDLING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbass598 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 "Non-BOA competing band educators" is too nebulous to evaluate for voracity because there are about a bazillion non-BOA circuits. To what competitive circuit are these non-BOA's comparing BOA? I'm in the OMEA jurisdiction, where a drum judge told me personally "I want to hear sixteenth notes played clean instead of flammed-drags played like cottage cheese". (A different thread: With those comments that judge demonstrated to me not his exceptional ability, but nothing more than his own extreme laziness and ineptitude, not to mention his complete lack of compassion for the long-term lessons he's puking on his charges, as well as for the puke he's demanding drum instructors teach their kids in order to be rewarded by him. Common-ness, done well, earns points. Similarity to all others is rewarded. All are equally wonderful, but simple and trained well, as only variations of the same monkey. I wanted to punch him for ruining for so many kids the gratification of stretching beyond their limits to attain a goal. Rant over.) I repeat, I'm in OMEA, where the notion of competition makes the hair stand up. Where I was told directly, "I'm a direct advisor to OMEA's [vision or mission, I forget] committee and I can tell you that, in the eyes of OMEA, drum corps and competitive music in general is the antithesis of our mission. Music should only be fun and rewarding and never associated with losing". OK, that was one guy (well, two with the drum judge) and they don't make up the whole org. And it could be he's was blustering to enhance my opinion of him. I don't know, regardless of how I see my local school's programs are run. The irony to me is that, of the two examples NEBrigand showed, Grove City and Broken Arrow, in my view Grove City, an OMEA circuit band, was by far the more enjoyable to me. (Also interesting that I discovered at least one of GC's staff marched Phantom - I see that all over their show in the example.) Just for reference, the school I teach competes in both Mid States and OMEA. I find the quality of judging in Mid States with the Central States Judges association to be far superior to what OMEA has to offer. My school tries to do 1 OMEA competition a year and then State Finals. In our 1 competition we did this year. I seriously got comments like "Watch that" with dead silence for 30 seconds between comments. I'm not sure specifically what "that" was because I heard 5-6 things that could have been commented on during his silence. I'm not saying my kids are spectacular or perfect or anything like that but I honestly believe the complexity of what we were trying to accomplish was completely over the judges head and he didn't know what to say to give any constructive feedback. It was a pretty early season show so there was plenty of stuff to be said. Where I think OMEA lacks over BOA, Mid States, etc. is in a judges training program. I believe there is still a part of the sheets for percussion that talks about visuals. Visuals are the last thing on my mind when I'm trying to teach my snare line how to play a clean double stroke roll and I find it ridiculous thats it's part of a scoring criteria for percussion. Also, to be a judge in OMEA, just need to get letters of recommendation from current judges and do some shadowing the last time I checked. I don't believe there is much formal criteria for the shadowing. I may be wrong. However, when I have a judge who can't leave valuable feedback on a tape because he hasn't been properly trained on how to judge a group complex compositional package in both the front and back it concerns me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 So guys - as OP I thought I'd come back and answer my original question "Why is this HS band program better designed than half of the DCI 2015 Top 12?" Because Broken Arrow is an incredible and unique high school with world class facilities, DCI/BOA/WGI design team and instructors, indoor football field house and multiple outdoor turf practice fields, hundreds of students who play instruments (many of which have private instruction in addition to top directorship in-school), a year round practice and audition schedule to trim down the full "Broken Arrow Band" into the "Pride" competitive ensemble, and a community booster organization which raise tens of thousands (hundreds actually) of dollars annually to support the program. In short - the community SUPPORTS quality education and a first class experience for the students. They (and a handful of Texas & Indiana Bands, plus Tarpon Springs (Florida), are literally the "Blue Devils of BOA" - top instruction, deep pockets and stability - plus a constant stream of talented prospective members For those not aware of Broken Arrow HS - here's their new lip-dub (a bit off topic, but that band gets a cool aerial shot and some other short features) - which illustrates the incredible facilities and programs of BA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBofJ5uxqFU Congratulations on their 2015 BOA National Championship! Thanks to all those many DCI instructors and designers who helped play a role! Final question - how do we develop more DCI programs with this type of resources and stability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShouldveMarchedAgeOut Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I love Broken Arrow. But this isn't in the ballpark of this last year's top 12 DCI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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