BRASSO Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) For full disclosure here, Broken Arrow, Oklahoma spends its money in what it values... in this case, Sports, Band, Sports facilities, etc and so forth. But when it does spend money in these Extracurricula areas, it apparently suffers in other Education areas. For example, according to all academic reviews ( US World Review, for one ), their High School is woefully deficient in the Academic Sciences .Their 2014 Biology scores have a failing 54% proficiency grade. Only 62% of its H.S. students are grade level proficient in Mathematics ( even below Oklahoma levels which are 74%). Only 22% of its students are taking advanced placement courses, and only 30.3 % of its adult citizens In the community over the age of 25 have a Bachelor's Degree. Oklahoma itself, in overall ranking of educational academic proficiency, is 48th out of 50 states for 2014 ( last year completed ). Its residents invest less for public education, per capita, than 45 other states. For perspective , our local public H.S. has a 99% proficiency level for its H.S.students in Mathmatics, and 95% in the Sciences. Believe me, if the academic scores for Science, Math, Reading, etc fell below even 85%, the vast majority of the parents in our community would scream bloody blue murder with the Superintendent, School Committee, Teachers, etc and demand the kids trade in their extracurricula picolos, trumpets, drums, pom poms, football pads, etc for more time on remedial instruction in the academic essentials of Mathematics , Reading and in the other Sciences. BUT.... this does not mean that one regions, districts, localities values have to be another's either. If Broken Arrow is ok with broken things in other disciplines to fund Band, Sports, plant facilities, all the power to them. This H.S. might be woefully deficient in Mathematics, Sciences, etc but it appears they undeniably have one fine Marching Band & Sports facilities, to be proud of in this Community. Our community's Marching Band, by contrast with this school's, is small and essentially insignificant. Its just a question as to what is most valued in public education by the parents and other taxpayers in a community and where a communities financial resources are invested as a result of those valued priorities, thats all. Edited November 23, 2015 by BRASSO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 For example, according to all academic reviews ( US World Review, for one ), their High School is woefully deficient in the Academic Sciences Their Biology scores are "F" with a 54% proficiency grade. Only 62% of its H.S. students are grade level proficient in Mathematics ( even below Oklahoma levels which are 74%). Only 22% of its students are taking advanced placement courses, and only 30.3 % of its adult citizens In the community over the age of 25 have a Bachelor's Degree. Oklahoma itself, in overall ranking of educational academic proficiency is 48th out of 50 states for 2014 ( last year completed ). Its residents spend less for its non extracurricular ( for essential academic disciplines ) that 45 other states per capita. Shortly after moving to the St. George area of UT, I met a NJ transplant who teaches in a local HS. He feels that as you head West from the middle of our country, there's more emphasis on sports than education, especially in the SW and CA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 So guys - as OP I thought I'd come back and answer my original question "Why is this HS band program better designed than half of the DCI 2015 Top 12?" Because Broken Arrow is an incredible and unique high school with world class facilities, DCI/BOA/WGI design team and instructors, indoor football field house and multiple outdoor turf practice fields, hundreds of students who play instruments (many of which have private instruction in addition to top directorship in-school), a year round practice and audition schedule to trim down the full "Broken Arrow Band" into the "Pride" competitive ensemble, and a community booster organization which raise tens of thousands (hundreds actually) of dollars annually to support the program. In short - the community SUPPORTS quality education and a first class experience for the students. They (and a handful of Texas & Indiana Bands, plus Tarpon Springs (Florida), are literally the "Blue Devils of BOA" - top instruction, deep pockets and stability - plus a constant stream of talented prospective members For those not aware of Broken Arrow HS - here's their new lip-dub (a bit off topic, but that band gets a cool aerial shot and some other short features) - which illustrates the incredible facilities and programs of BA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBofJ5uxqFU Congratulations on their 2015 BOA National Championship! Thanks to all those many DCI instructors and designers who helped play a role! Final question - how do we develop more DCI programs with this type of resources and stability? tax payer money? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimaster Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 For full disclosure here, Broken Arrow, Oklahoma spends its money in what it values... in this case, Sports, Band, Sports facilities, etc and so forth. But when it does spend money in these Extracurricula areas, it apparently suffers in other Education areas. For example, according to all academic reviews ( US World Review, for one ), their High School is woefully deficient in the Academic Sciences .Their 2014 Biology scores have a failing 54% proficiency grade. Only 62% of its H.S. students are grade level proficient in Mathematics ( even below Oklahoma levels which are 74%). Only 22% of its students are taking advanced placement courses, and only 30.3 % of its adult citizens In the community over the age of 25 have a Bachelor's Degree. Oklahoma itself, in overall ranking of educational academic proficiency, is 48th out of 50 states for 2014 ( last year completed ). Its residents invest less for public education, per capita, than 45 other states. For perspective , our local public H.S. has a 99% proficiency level for its H.S.students in Mathmatics, and 95% in the Sciences. Believe me, if the academic scores for Science, Math, Reading, etc fell below even 85%, the vast majority of the parents in our community would scream bloody blue murder with the Superintendent, School Committee, Teachers, etc and demand the kids trade in their extracurricula picolos, trumpets, drums, pom poms, football pads, etc for more time on remedial instruction in the academic essentials of Mathematics , Reading and in the other Sciences. BUT.... this does not mean that one regions, districts, localities values have to be another's either. If Broken Arrow is ok with broken things in other disciplines to fund Band, Sports, plant facilities, all the power to them. This H.S. might be woefully deficient in Mathematics, Sciences, etc but it appears they undeniably have one fine Marching Band & Sports facilities, to be proud of in this Community. Our community's Marching Band, by contrast with this school's, is small and essentially insignificant. Its just a question as to what is most valued in public education by the parents and other taxpayers in a community and where a communities financial resources are invested as a result of those valued priorities, thats all. Those test scores are bad, but to be fair, only 31.96% of people over 25 in the US have a Bachelor's Degree. They are par for the course in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) For example, according to all academic reviews ( US World Review, for one ), their High School is woefully deficient in the Academic Sciences .Their 2014 Biology scores have a failing 54% proficiency grade. Only 62% of its H.S. students are grade level proficient in Mathematics ( even below Oklahoma levels which are 74%). Only 22% of its students are taking advanced placement courses, and only 30.3 % of its adult citizens In the community over the age of 25 have a Bachelor's Degree. Oklahoma itself, in overall ranking of educational academic proficiency, is 48th out of 50 states for 2014 ( last year completed ). Its residents invest less for public education, per capita, than 45 other states. I'm not sure of your "agenda" sometimes 1. Rural states always spend much less per capita than states with large cities - due the extremely high cost per student in the large cities In my state (MD) DC (suburbs) and Baltimore spends a ton per student. However, money spent per student is a very poor predictor of long term success. Just look at the horrible results in Baltimore, or most large cities. Our school system "ranks" among the top or top couple annually, and the local kids are, frankly, pretty poorly educated. But boy can they pile up AP credits and take those standardized exams. 2. OK is a rural, farm and industrial based state. I doubt advance placement classes and College degrees help you much on the ranch. So naturally they have more kids in general education, agriculture classes and vo-tech. And that's a good thing! Unless we don't value things like agriculture and industry anymore... Edited November 24, 2015 by George Dixon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'm not sure of your "agenda" sometimes I'm not sure what you mean with that remark, either. Oh Well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure of your "agenda" sometimes . 2. OK is a rural, farm and industrial based state. I doubt advance placement classes and College degrees help you much on the ranch. So naturally they have more kids in general education, agriculture classes and vo-tech. And that's a good thing! Unless we don't value things like agriculture and industry anymore... What is a " good thing " is up to each community. Perhaps you missed that I acknowledged that what a community values in education is rightfully determined by them, and them alone. This Community clearly values Band, Sports over Mathematics, Biology, the other Sciences, & Reading. I took no position at all if those choices are misguided , " good " or " bad" or whatever. I simply pointed out that my local community values other things in Education, but made no mention at all if my community's choices are " good ".. " bad "... nor a " better choice" , etc than what others value in education. If this Oklahoma community values " agriculture ", my thinking on that would be that proficiency in Mathematics, Economics, Biology, the other Sciences, etc is a potential benefit to the students future chances of running an economically successful agricultural business. But if they think that the extracurricula offerrings of Band participation, or Sports participation and proficiency there instead might serve their students better in the future in this regard, all the power to them. I even said they should be proud of their Marching Band. It IS their choice to determine the things they value in their schools,( not me, you, or others here ) and I said as much in my comments above as well. So whatever your particular " agenda " is on my remarks on this, it sure seems puzzling to me., Edited November 24, 2015 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Shortly after moving to the St. George area of UT, I met a NJ transplant who teaches in a local HS. He feels that as you head West from the middle of our country, there's more emphasis on sports than education, especially in the SW and CA. I think its more community based however, not so much regionally. My local community happens to value Ice Hockey, probably as much as any High School in the South values the sport of Football. At the collegiate level, Umass- Amherst values Marching Band more than Ice Hockey, but BU, BC value Ice Hockey more than Harvard does, which values Marching Band as much as it values the flu. Harvard doesn't really value Football, but Stanford does, but they value Marching Band as little as Harvard does. Some colleges & univeresities value their Marching Band more than their Football team. Some H.S's all across the country.are so apathetic all around that they don't seem to value anything at all in their schools.., academics or extracurricula. They've just about thrown in the towel all around. ( its their freedom of choice to do so too, imo ) So these are mostly choices made locally, imo.. (as Broken Arrow, Ok. has here)... and the Nation's communities are as diverse in what they value across the country in Education as can be. Edited November 24, 2015 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) What is a " good thing " is up to each community. Perhaps you missed that I acknowledged that what a community values in education is rightfully determined by them, and them alone. This Community clearly values Band, Sports over Mathematics, Biology, the other Sciences, & Reading. I took no position at all if those choices are misguided , " good " or " bad" or whatever. I simply pointed out that my local community values other things in Education, but made no mention at all if my community's choices are " good ".. " bad "... nor a " better choice" , etc than what others value in education. If this Oklahoma community values " agriculture ", my thinking on that would be that proficiency in Mathematics, Economics, Biology, the other Sciences, etc is a potential benefit to the students future chances of running an economically successful agricultural business. But if they think that the extracurricula offerrings of Band participation, or Sports participation and proficiency there instead might serve their students better in the future in this regard, all the power to them. I even said they should be proud of their Marching Band. It IS their choice to determine the things they value in their schools,( not me, you, or others here ) and I said as much in my comments above as well. So whatever your particular " agenda " is on my remarks on this, it sure seems puzzling to me., Sorry - wasn't implying you didn't value their band etc... I just don't have much respect (or trust) in "academic rankings" - particularly AP statistics and standardized testing. The way the educational elite - the Dept Of Education and their associated "intellectuals" want to rack and stack priorities is mind numbing. Before we had the Dept of Ed, the CAT, the ACT, AP classes and all the rest of it - we used to have the worlds TOP educational system. Now kids can't even point out the USA on a globe. It's pathetic. I personally believe the work-ethic and team-work lessons learned in a program such as a drum corps or competitive marching band are far more valuable than all this testing and racking and stacking. We also don't know how that school population would perform if you "lifted" the band and arts programs out of the school. May be helping things more than we know! Edited November 24, 2015 by George Dixon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 While I understand both sides of the argument here, I used to teach for a band in the small BOA class, that did well consistently ever year it attended. And while I'm grateful that they spent money on the band and football team, and yes, those kids were going to inherit dad's farm, it was sad that many of those who graduated could barely read above a 4th grade level and could almost do basic bookkeeping math. (i stress, almost) At least I can take pride that those who were in band stayed in school all four years due to their enjoyment while many of the others dropped out by their Jr year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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