Pete Freedman Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Wow-this is just a whole bunch of craziness. Not only are the theories on money and how things were/are done completely bizarre, they're riddled with a complete lack of knowledge on the subject as it pertains to not only DCI, but copyright as a whole. Please send me your address and I would be more than happy to share books, depositions, court documents, etc. on the subject. Wow... That's entirely possible. It's a simple question: could old sync rights contracts reasonably be construed to cover streaming videos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 That's entirely possible. It's a simple question: could old sync rights contracts reasonably be construed to cover streaming videos? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 No. I wouldn't think so. All of these copyright threads, particularly over the last year of this particular issue, have been full of rumor and speculation. That's because we don't have the facts and so that's the best we can do. But that speculation has generally not included the idea that DCI knew internally - possibly all along - that they were exposed. Legal scandals in the media often seem to go that way: people go from "It wasn't illegal" to "We didn't know it was illegal" when in fact they knew it was illegal. RONDINARO: You thought though in good conscience you were dotting your i's and crossing your t's. ACHESON: The corps themselves, Drum Corps International, and the people we work with all were under the understanding that everything we were doing along the way was the right thing to do. ... He did not say they believed it was legal, only that they thought it was the right thing to do. I support Dan Acheson and DCI 100%. In fact my scenario earlier was based on the presumption that DCI corporate would never do this knowingly unless they had to. But obviously that was all speculation, as I said in that post. If you ask how DCI could do such a thing, you have to then describe a DCI/BOD politics situation enabling it. Nobody's evil, they just have interests that sometimes conflict with each other and certainly with the copyright holders. All I'm saying is, maybe they knew there was a problem all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 here's a nugget....while recently re-reading the Cavaliers book released a few years ago ( #### good book too), Fiedler made reference to licensing back in the 90's, and made a joke "well we could do it and go back and ask forgiveness later". Now he did state they didn't, and describes how things were arranged to keep from having to go that route. the question is did others do the same, or hope it would work out later? Plus, it's readily been made public that Tresona has decided to interpret laws differently in how it grants things. So to me, it's a combination of at times DCI or the corps threw cuation to the wind and went for it anyway, despite generally following the accepted rules, and Treson deciding to be a hard ### with how they feel the rules should be upheld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Interesting info. Have certain copyright holders granted Tresona exclusive power to sell to marching arts organizations? Or are they more like the contractor who reports your code violation, then shows up on your doorstep offering to fix it for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Interesting info. Have certain copyright holders granted Tresona exclusive power to sell to marching arts organizations? Or are they more like the contractor who reports your code violation, then shows up on your doorstep offering to fix it for you... Depends. Some, such as Hal Leonad use Tresona to grant rights exclusively. Whether it's marching arts, film, commercial, etc. Others are using them to assist, if you want to call it that. No copyright case/usage is simple, even within the same genre or performance medium, each is why copyright regulations are so difficult to comprehend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
va9590jm Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I just want to add my .02 on the 13th on down DVD's and such: Yes, they might not make anywhere close to the same money as the top-12 DVD's, but IMO the income gap is in a large part due to DCI itself. Pretty much all marketing that DCI has done as long as I have been involved in this activity has pretty much always been solely the top 12. Everything that they do from the marketing perspective just further reinforces the disparity and the giant gap that happens between 12th and 13th, even if performance-wise there is such a small gap that on any given day it could have been the other way around over the summer. It really would not cost much to create a marketing campaign that helps to promote the lower placing corps and try to increase those DVD sales. It's all about awareness. If they don't make people aware of the product and the quality (especially in recent years) of those discs, then people won't buy. Yes, everyone always wants the excellence of the top-12, but there's much more to it than that. Heck, the 13th on down performances of recent years sometimes have been much more entertaining and still extremely well performed, but do you see much about that from DCI? No, not really. There's an opportunity that has been missed, and now its not "cost-effective", but in part due to their lack of visible care about the product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Aces Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 What exactly needs to happen for DCI (and the other pageantry arts organizations) to get out of this mess? Does anyone know specifically the steps involved to get DVDs/Blu-Rays/archived shows back up and running and intact with no gaping holes in the shows? Does DCI need to do some sort of "blanket" deal with Tresona that would cover sync rights of all shows in a given season? Does DCI need to enforce that each corps do a separate deal with Tresona for sync rights? Does DCI need to go back and pay for any and all sync rights for shows that are to appear in any sort of video media? Is there something else not mentioned? Is this just a standoff now with either party waiting for the other side to do something?? At this point, while understanding the issues involved, I don't think I understand what needs to happen to clear up the mess. Perhaps neither party knows, and that is the answer, but I would be interested in finding out at the least the necessary steps for the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 What exactly needs to happen for DCI (and the other pageantry arts organizations) to get out of this mess? Does anyone know specifically the steps involved to get DVDs/Blu-Rays/archived shows back up and running and intact with no gaping holes in the shows? Does DCI need to do some sort of "blanket" deal with Tresona that would cover sync rights of all shows in a given season? Does DCI need to enforce that each corps do a separate deal with Tresona for sync rights? Does DCI need to go back and pay for any and all sync rights for shows that are to appear in any sort of video media? Is there something else not mentioned? Is this just a standoff now with either party waiting for the other side to do something?? At this point, while understanding the issues involved, I don't think I understand what needs to happen to clear up the mess. Perhaps neither party knows, and that is the answer, but I would be interested in finding out at the least the necessary steps for the solution. there is no blanket option. it's a song by song by clip thing. very painstaking for sure. So say you use 4 notes of a tune...you have to get clearance for just those 4 notes, in addition to everything else. in order for older stuff to appear, DCI will have to probably make good with every rights holder out there. God only knows what that will cost. I think when DCi releases the info about what all is needed, which I'm told looks like chutes and ladders game boards, it will help clear stuff up in terms of understanding.I think one option to help clear up problems would be to start a capital campaign to raise funds to preserve our history 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 So the DCI champ will be decided in a room (& the very same room) through 2028. Swell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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