C.Holland Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 But it's "marching music's major league". Even school bands have to pay rights to perform, and then have to pay to be able to redistribute that. Thus BOA, TOB, USBands, and the rest haven't made DVDs for sale. Stop with the "educational" idea that they don't need to pay for it. Educational archive means that the groups CAN keep a recording for their own usage an analysis. It does not allow them or anyone to redistribute (see also, sell) it to anyone else. That is not an educational purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindap Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 A long, verbose paragraph during an infrequent, flashback moment When we did winter guard late 1970's, I owned a Marantz cassette machine, a turntable and 2 large speakers. We were able to copy a record album to cassette tape. Then we'd copy cassette to cassette, stopping and starting until we had 2-3 pieces for a 6 minutes guard show. Then we designed, charted, wrote drill and equipment, taught the guard, sewed costumes, flags etc. Once the process was done, we'd copy the cassette to another cassette in case there were technical failures during a contest. The judges had cassette tapes to record their adjudication. We instructors got their cassette tape or a copy thereof to review. I remember hauling the Marantz, 2 2 foot speakers and that equipment in between (a receiver?) to every rehearsal. Load the car, unload the car, rehearse, load the car, unload the car 2-3 times a week. When we ran out of ideas from our record album selection, I'd go to the library and borrow LPs to copy to cassette. Oh my! What have I done? We wanted to use music the guard was comfortable with, music they liked, music that could work? The audience consisted of parents and fans. What if the only video is from a 1980's public television station that no longer exists? Hypothetically, if the video were posted to youtube, would that be a gift? If you give a gift and ask nothing in return, is that a copyright violation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 But it's "marching music's major league". Even school bands have to pay rights to perform, and then have to pay to be able to redistribute that. Thus BOA, TOB, USBands, and the rest haven't made DVDs for sale. Stop with the "educational" idea that they don't need to pay for it. Educational archive means that the groups CAN keep a recording for their own usage an analysis. It does not allow them or anyone to redistribute (see also, sell) it to anyone else. That is not an educational purpose. TOB hasn't. a company has for them and secures rights to be able to put the groups on. TOB has no ownership in the film Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 A long, verbose paragraph during an infrequent, flashback moment When we did winter guard late 1970's, I owned a Marantz cassette machine, a turntable and 2 large speakers. We were able to copy a record album to cassette tape. Then we'd copy cassette to cassette, stopping and starting until we had 2-3 pieces for a 6 minutes guard show. Then we designed, charted, wrote drill and equipment, taught the guard, sewed costumes, flags etc. Once the process was done, we'd copy the cassette to another cassette in case there were technical failures during a contest. The judges had cassette tapes to record their adjudication. We instructors got their cassette tape or a copy thereof to review. I remember hauling the Marantz, 2 2 foot speakers and that equipment in between (a receiver?) to every rehearsal. Load the car, unload the car, rehearse, load the car, unload the car 2-3 times a week. When we ran out of ideas from our record album selection, I'd go to the library and borrow LPs to copy to cassette. Oh my! What have I done? We wanted to use music the guard was comfortable with, music they liked, music that could work? The audience consisted of parents and fans. What if the only video is from a 1980's public television station that no longer exists? Hypothetically, if the video were posted to youtube, would that be a gift? If you give a gift and ask nothing in return, is that a copyright violation? Of course you realize that even then, that was NOT legal. Did everyone do it, yes. Was it legal, not a chance. Not even back then. Just because no one was caught, or no effort was made to stop it, like there is now, doesn't mean it was legal in the copyright world. The issues now are simply that due to the Internet, these things can be checked, and are checked now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Drum corps were *never* told that by publishers and rights holders. That old wive's tale is what drum corps told themselves to excuse the fact that they were indeed stealing. Evidently, your wife is not old enough to know what went on back in the day. So what do you believe - that the entire drum corps activity knowingly and purposely stole, and managed to conceal their crimes from every single composer/copyright holder for five decades before being discovered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Evidently, your wife is not old enough to know what went on back in the day. So what do you believe - that the entire drum corps activity knowingly and purposely stole, and managed to conceal their crimes from every single composer/copyright holder for five decades before being discovered? There was no effort to conceal anything. Drum corps were counting on the fact that they were small potatoes, and publishers would have to mount a major effort to do anything about it. It wasn't until the internet age that anyone besides Disney started going after the "little guy". Heck, drum corps itself didn't even go after the *vast* number of fans pirating corps recordings...why? The expense wasn't justified. That's *not* the same thing as granting permission. You assert that publishers granted some sort of pass to drum corps...prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 There was no effort to conceal anything. Drum corps were counting on the fact that they were small potatoes, and publishers would have to mount a major effort to do anything about it. It wasn't until the internet age that anyone besides Disney started going after the "little guy". Heck, drum corps itself didn't even go after the *vast* number of fans pirating corps recordings...why? The expense wasn't justified. That's *not* the same thing as granting permission. You assert that publishers granted some sort of pass to drum corps...prove it. YES! That's exactly the point that so many of us have tired to make! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 But its not small potatoes. DVDs, Blu Rays, CDs, Downloads, the simulcast theatre viewings... its not small potatoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 (edited) But its not small potatoes. DVDs, Blu Rays, CDs, Downloads, the simulcast theatre viewings... its not small potatoes. Drum corps was considered small potatoes in the pre-digital age. It still is, but it's a lot easier (read: cheaper) to skin the small ones these days than it was back in the 70's and 80's. Edited April 8, 2016 by Kamarag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 (edited) Its not anymore when you think about how many go to the theatres for broadcasts, and get the live feeds. Edited April 8, 2016 by C.Holland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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