EarCupper Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 DCI certainly has LGBTQ individuals participating in its groups and organization. Why wouldn't they protect the individuals who are actively contributing to DCI's success. It seems only fair that DCI would stand by their side in the same way that Coca-Cola and Citigroup stand by the LGBTQ employees who contribute to their success. I know these aren't nearly the same organizations, but some have suggested that DCI stand by and refrain from political and social action, etc. I for one would be disappointed if DCI didn't at least express their opposition to the new law in an official manner. Standing by and watching is a terrible idea. I would like to see them continue on with their already-scheduled shows/activities in those states that have enacted anti-LGBTQ laws, but also seriously reconsider future scheduling in those states. "Justice is sweet and musical; but injustice is harsh and discordant". -Henry David Thoreau 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) DCI certainly has LGBTQ individuals participating in its groups and organization. Why wouldn't they protect the individuals who are actively contributing to DCI's success. For the simple reason that the LGBTQ minority participants in DCI are in no need of " protection ". It seems to me their sexual orientations as it relates to to their participation in DCI is not threatened in any manner by what happened here. DCI should likewise take no political stand to " protect " the religious element's minority marchers " Freedoms of Religion " in DCI either, who might agree with this decision. Thats because the religion of noone in DCI needs " protection " as it relates to their participation in DCI.. The religious liberties of noone in DCI is threatened here in any manner either. Both the LGBTQ community and the Fundamentalist Christian element are both minority elements in DCI.... ( granted, with the LGBTQ minority element perhaps a bit larger ) However, we should respect and " protect " BOTH beliefs, imo. As its a issue that is divisive and which the country at large is grabbling with, ie religious liberties when it meets up with sexual orientation freedoms. So in this divided environment it is not the role of DCI to attempt to meddle in far away state affairs with this, imo... particularly when DCI has its own internal issues with discrimination ( gender ) in its own ranks that could use some " progressive " engineering too, if we are honest about it. Edited April 12, 2016 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancidrolla Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) WFTDA is the largest governing body of women's roller derby (way bigger than even its male counterpart). they have a pretty legit gender policy (to me) and it would be nice to see Madison and cavies adopt something similar. That is if they don't inegrate fully soon. That being said I'm sure there have been trans folks that have marched those corps with no problem. https://wftda.com/wftda-gender-statement Edited April 12, 2016 by rancidrolla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 For the simple reason that the LGBTQ minority participants in DCI are in no need of " protection ". It seems to me their sexual orientations as to their participation in D I are not threatened in any manner by what happened here. DCI should likewise take no political stand to " protect " the religious element's minority marchers " Freedoms of Religion " in DCI either, who might agree with this decision. Thats because the religion of noone in DCI needs " protection ". The religious liberties of noone in DCI is threatened here in any manner either. Both the LGBTQ community and the Fundamentalist Christian element are both minority elements in DCI.... ( granted, with the LGBTQ minority element perhaps a bit larger ) However, we should respect and " protect " BOTH beliefs, imo. As its a issue that is divisive and which the country at large is grabbling with, ie religious liberties when it meets up with sexual orientation freedoms. So in this divided enviironment it is not the role of DCI to attempt to meddle in far away state affairs with this, imo... particularly when DCI has its own internal issues with discrimination ( gender ) in its own ranks that could use some " progressive " engineering too, if we are honest about it. Minority? really? Not to divide in any way but do you realize that some of these associations like WGI is called by many the LGBT convention?...lol I wont say majority or minority personally . I think those archaic labels in itself divides . Many or few, right is right wrong is wrong You did say possibly at this point nothing needs to be protected. this could be true and i commend you for the thought that ALL need to be protected. I couldnt agree more on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Setting aside the 50's for a moment... what about today ? is it really appropriate for DCI to condone the gender discrimination of two of its member Corps today ? Really ?. Back in the 50's, people rationalized race discrimination in their own minds on the grounds of " tradition ". That " its always been this way ", and " we like it this way ", and only a few " trouble makers " are complaining, and yada yada yada. Fast forward however to today in DCI when we hear much the same excuse words for 2 DCI Corps continued " tradition " of exclusivity to one gender alone, and to discrimination of female participation. Talent for entry does not matter to these 2 Corps. Maleness and " tradition " trumps qualifications and talent here, Women are disqualified for participation in these 2 Corps by their gender alone. Here in the so called 21st century of progressive, forward thinking too . How rich. Something the women among us had no choice in at birth either. The message is out... if you are female, don't even waste your time attempting to make a spot in the marching ranks of these 2 DCI Corps. Instead of " blacks need not apply or " Irish need not apply", its " females need not apply " here with these 2 Corps. I know this is a touchy subject, and believe me, it pains me to bring this up,as I actually LIKE the Cavaliers and the Madison Scouts, and prefer that they keep their " traditions " of All Maleness, despite being the only remaining DCI corps to retain this "tradition " of the classic example of gender discrimination. Proponents in Drum Corps calling for of an end to racial and sexual discrimination lose their high moral ground it seems to me when they adopt such a belief system, but then look the other way when 2 of its iconic DCI Drum Corps continue to practice gender discrimination to this very day. I know some people here probably don't want to hear this... but then again, if we are discussing a topic of alleged sexual discrimination in some far away state, it seems to me the perfect time to broaden the topic to include gender discrimination in DCI and whether we all should continue to condone it, or " be silent on it " because " we like it this way "... its " part of our traditions " with these 2 Corps.... " people like it this way in our neck of the ( Drum Corps ) woods ", and only " trouble makers " would want these 2 Corps to abandon their discriminatory policies regarding one's gender. Plus, like was said in the 50's with the blacks as an excuse.. " they really wouldn't feel comfortable here anyway ". Gender discrimination, like racial discrimination, is particularly odorous, imo, as the person that is the subject of discrimination in these particular cases of it, had no choice in the matter. They were born black. Or they were born female. As for the latter example of gender discrimination, let me be on record then that I have" not remained silent on it", and really can't speak nor be held responsible now or into the future for any others current " silence " on it. I bet over the many many decades you can count on 1 hand the females wanting to get into these 2 corps. Will they change in years to come? maybe but I can also tell you there would be more females screaming this not to happen than male.. Just my personal observation as well as interaction with BOTH groups. IMO this is very different than the thing being talked about here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Thunder Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) Were there any integrated corps that toured the South in the 1950s? If so, did their black members have to use separate facilities than their white members? If there had been a DCI at the time, should they have ignored that situation? Spoken up about it? Cancelled shows? By doing nothing, would DCI the educational organization be educating its members that "separate but equal" policy was fine? There were quite a number of integrated corps that were supposed to appear in various segregated parts of the country in the 50s and 60s. They refused to travel there if the members of color were not included as part of their group. (I've written about many of these incidents in my DCW column.) There are some true horror stories of well-known corps having to experience some brutal things while traveling to such locales as Miami and New Orleans over the years. Here's a link to one such incident with the Argonne Rebels, when they DID choose to travel through such areas: http://www.phillbriscoe.com/argonne-rebels-montgomery-al-summer-1963/ Edited April 12, 2016 by Northern Thunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) There were quite a number of integrated corps that were supposed to appear in various segregated parts of the country in the 50s and 60s. They refused to travel there if the members of color were not included as part of their group. (I've written about many of these incidents in my DCW column.) There are some true horror stories of well-known corps having to experience some brutal things while traveling to such locales as Miami and New Orleans over the years. I experienced only one or 2 of these things BITD traveling to New Orleans and hiding a corps member as cross burning's being done less than 100 yards from the bus.. Horrible Some scary ####! Edited April 12, 2016 by GUARDLING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) Minority? really? Not to divide in any way but do you realize that some of these associations like WGI is called by many the LGBT convention?...lol Well if so, all the MORE reason that DCI should go out of its way to make certain that the religious element within the marching ranks of Corps do not seem isolated or made to feel felt " different ". Besides, it is nobody's business.... including DCI's.... to know what the sexual orientation of its marchers are. The fact that " many " make remarks such as the one you just mentioned, does not make the remark accurate either. I can't comment on whether or not WGI is mostly made up of gays. I could care less if many people might think the majority of its marchers in DCI are gay either. I don't care what sex a prefers, nor with whom they prefer to have it with. But I do care if a person's sex precludes them from participation in a couple of DCI Corps. Its got to do with the fundamental unfairness of saying you can't march here simply because of your sex. Edited April 12, 2016 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfever Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 The drum corps world is one of the most progressive of any activity. Let the lawmakers do what they must - or think they must. But, for goodness sake, I don't know what good this discussion will do within the pages of DCP. If we created a discussion thread for any politically-charged law in (you pick the state), we'd all have our minds blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Well if so, all the MORE reason that DCI should go out of its way to make certain that the religious element within the marching ranks of Corps do not seem isolated or made to feel felt " different ". Besides, it is nobody's business.... including DCI's.... to know what the sexual orientation of its marchers are. The fact that " many " make remarks such as the one you just mentioned, does not make the remark accurate either. I can't comment on whether or not WGI is mostly made up of gays. I could care less if many people might think the majority of its marchers in DCI are gay either. I don't care what sex a prefers, nor with whom they prefer to have it with. But I do care if a person's sex precludes them from participation in a couple of DCI Corps. Its got to do with the fundamental unfairness of saying you can't march here simply because of your sex. i agree, noone should be isolated or made to feel different. I do know for many its not really about who sleeps with who but the comfort of just being ( and that includes other things than who sleeps with who ) Like I said though, not debating If something is called something or not, that is just a fact. Accurate? maybe maybe not, Small amount or not? Maybe maybe not I don't think that really matters thats why I also said terms like majority or minority are kind of archaic to me and in itself suggests LESS than or not by many ( not you ) To me it really doesnt matter how many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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