Any lock for Top 3?

[Jeremy.]

Crown, BD, Coats. In that order... Cadets/vanguard won't be able to knock any of them off the podium.

[jjeffeory]

I think I get your point... I missed it in my response.

Do you have an example of a program that didn't compete on the equal merits of its drill vs. a champion program on the merits of its staging?

Cadets versus the field last year maybe?

That's the whole reason they've switched approaches to show design for this year, right?

I mean, top notch drill, horns, and drums and still can't get enough points to win or even medal.

SCV? Has top notch drill, guard, and percussion, but can't medal.

Bluecoats, go to more staging and begin to consistently medal.

It's just a general trend that has happened since BD starting winning this latest round of DCI rings with the amount of staging they do versus drill.

Everyone else has to change their design to compete; BD wins because they are good AND they change the game.

This is also why I believe that Bluecoats will win it this year. They are good AND they are changing the game and pushing it more towards a cirque experience.

Anyway, just my opinion though.

[Herk]

Cadets versus the field last year maybe?

That's the whole reason they've switched approaches to show design for this year, right?

I mean, top notch drill, horns, and drums and still can't get enough points to win or even medal.

SCV? Has top notch drill, guard, and percussion, but can't medal.

Bluecoats, go to more staging and begin to consistently medal.

It's just a general trend that has happened since BD starting winning this latest round of DCI rings with the amount of staging they do versus drill.

Everyone else has to change their design to compete; BD wins because they are good AND they change the game.

This is also why I believe that Bluecoats will win it this year. They are good AND they are changing the game and pushing it more towards a cirque experience.

Anyway, just my opinion though.

I tend to agree with you. The old style of just marching around the field...no matter how well it is done...just isn't good enough. It's all about "100 yards of theater".

[N.E. Brigand]

1. I'd just like to point out that 7 or so corps performing at a caliber worthy to contend is hardly an example of low or limited competition. For much of DCI history there have only been 3 or 4 worthy of medaling and 1 obvious gold winner for a stretch of time. Those days are mostly in the past. For some time now, we have watched 6 to 8 corps trade caption wins and up to 5 or so give a legitimate run for a win on occasion.

2. That's a long way from the 90's-00's.

3. G7 or 8 is a long way from G3 or 4.

4. Isn't that term fairly antiquated anyway?

(Numbering added above to clarify responses below.)

1. I'm not sure if this is correct, particularly as regards there having been "one obvious gold winner for a stretch of time" in many years prior to this decade. In the 38 years from 1972 through 2009, if CorpsReps is correct, only six DCI champions were undefeated (in 1977, 1982, 1994, 2000, 2002, 2009)--and one of those ended in a tie. And besides that, there were a number of close finishes, perhaps most notably (other than the three ties) in 1980, when three corps who have never yet won were less than one point from first place: 27th Lancers, Bridgemen, and Spirit of Atlanta.

2. By contrast, in the first six years of this decade, the champion has been undefeated three times (2010, 2012, 2014).

3. While the G7 concept is/was basically a marketing/financial ploy aiming to lock down a permanent elite status for certain corps, if membership were to be decided based on, for instance, having an average rank over a period of seven years of better than 8th place--a standard by which Carolina Crown, as it happens, would only have first qualified in 2009, six months before the G7 scheme was announced--then there was a G7 in place as early as 1986. For another example: in 1989, the seventh-place corps scored just 5.2 pts. behind the champion, compared to 7.8 pts. in 2013, 8.2 pts. in 2014, and 7.3 pts. in 2015.

4. Pete answered this one sufficiently. (As it happens, last year, for the first time since the G7 were announced early in 2010, two non-G7 corps placed ahead of G7 corps.)

[N.E. Brigand]

By contrast, DCI narrows the teams that have a legitimate shot to win it all in approx. 5 days.... to approx. 5 teams.

Does DCI do that, or do the corps do that? How could the rules be changed so that Troopers had a shot of catching Crown this year?

(And is this exclusive to DCI, or was it also true prior of corps prior to DCI's formation?)

[cfirwin3]

I would say that there isn't a lot of difference between BD 1996 and what they are doing today... yet between those periods, you have a run of Cavalier shows that were heavy on drill. Likewise, you have Angels and Demons and Crown 2013 (plus all those other Crown top five shows that were 'drill centric'... That 'Grass is Greener' one comes to mind). Additionally, 'Tilt' was very much a 'drill centric' production. They had some low profile props (in duplicate) on the field, but the presentation centered on formation and marching (more than the year prior).

I think think that the troubles for SCV run deeper than a gravitation towards classic drill. I think that their designs are lacking the innovative spark that they had from the late 90's through the 00's. They also haven't been getting quite as clean as they need to in order to compete on the weight that they give drill... meaning, if you are going to focus exclusively on drill, then it all has to be solid all the time. For all groups, what ever you are doing... it needs to look like a champion at all times.

[N.E. Brigand]

Sure... they all do it.

BD has always gotten the most unwarranted criticism... while the truth is that they are constantly bookin' it out there and rocking high velocity block rotations and contrary motion drill like the bosses that they are. And they always have done it... but gripers tend to focus on the parking and blowing (which also has its value in a drumcorps show... never a liability as some suggest).

Just a nit: they can't be "constantly bookin' it" and also "parking and blowing".

[CaviesFan17]

I tend to agree with you. The old style of just marching around the field...no matter how well it is done...just isn't good enough. It's all about "100 yards of theater".

Which is kind of sad. The drill was the main thing I love about the Cavies shows from the early 2000's and even later in shows like Samurai and Mad World

[George Dixon]

Crown, BD, Coats. In that order... Cadets/vanguard won't be able to knock any of them off the podium.

so you consider your prediction a "lock"

got it. This thread is a bit wonky lol

[BRASSO]

Does DCI do that, or do the corps do that? How could the rules be changed so that Troopers had a shot of catching Crown this year?

I would say its a combination of both. As for your 2nd question, DCI could have more competitive parity( and thus more excitement, more fan growth, Corps numbers growth, this would bring, etc ) if it was willing to forego its acrchaic, obsolete, non progressive, backward policy of having no sensible and reasonable transfer policy implementation among its member Corps. All successful amateur youth sports leagues have this ( Drum Corps circuits prior to DCI used too as well... and successfully ). However, the elite DCI Corps that have so much influence in DCI would not sign on for this, plus there is no widespread appetite among the Scholastic Marching Band community, nor within DCI, for even a discussion on how this might work and be potentially benefical, long term to both the overall health and stability of the activity, and for a jump start for future growth prospects of DCI. Since there is no clarion call for what all other successful youth sports leagues do regarding this, DCI is pretty much stuck forever, imo, with treading water as an entity, and with little to no chance to ever substantially grow this activity both in the numbers of Corps, number of participants, numbers of fans, number of more Corps competing for titles, etc and so forth. Doing the same things over and over again, tends to produce the same results. As such, the Blue Devils are going to competitively dominate DCI in Titles won for the next half century, imo. Its ok, by me, as I'll be dead and gone during most of it, and the younger, newer fans seem to be ok with the status quo on this as well it would appear.

Edited July 7, 2016 by BRASSO