DrumManTx Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) Stars are pretty strong in guard. Didn't they place 6th in guard a year or two ago? 4th in 2014 and top 6 a few times from 08 - 10. When they get clean, they are with the best. If not, 2015 happens. Percussion this year IMO along with BK is the strongest of last years 6 - 12. Huge number of vets in the drums and it shows, and the front ensemble is by no surprise amazing once again. They're top tier this year. As far as where the corps ends up, I haven't been this confident in their longevity throughout the season in a long time. In its final form I think they have something special. Edited July 12, 2016 by DrumManTx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Stars are pretty strong in guard. Didn't they place 6th in guard a year or two ago? 4th in 2014, 12th in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStainGlass Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I like being underestimated :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Detweiler Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 There's no way that scores can be this consistent between judges without an awful lot of private discussion behind the scenes. I assume all the judges review videos of all corps from the beginning of the season and share notes. The stakes are too high for judges not to agree. Judges likely have as much background info and collective agreement on complex show themes as possible before first viewing. Some of the shows are so luke warm in their conveying of their theme (if any) that it's impossible for even an expert first time viewer to catch everything, much less agree with another judges' assessment, so my guess would be they're already super familiar with each show before their first viewing. Just for score consistency's sake. Also, I assume there are lengthy private discussions among judges about each corps' musical arrangements, theme and staging. Without private discussions between the judges, and sharing of videos between them, their basic understanding of the shows would vary too greatly, and judges' assessments would be way too far apart, especially with more abstract shows, or shows that have vague themes. There's no way, for example, that a judge would be able to see Phantom's show for the first time and fully understand and agree on their visual program theme this year-- it's too vague and underdeveloped for any two fresh judges to see it and agree on a pinpoint score, plus or minus a half a point. Ridiculous to assume they don't.. No, this assumption is dead wrong. The consistency of scores is not based on private previews among judges or behind the door conversations before a show. They are based on solid, consistent training. Too many people assume that these judges are just arbitrarily selected to judge and are then thrown into the arena to fend for themselves. There is extensive, and I do mean extensive training involved as well as trial judging that takes place before someone is allowed to put a number on a sheet as a member of a panel. Training includes expected standards, sheet vocabulary, numbers management, box criteria and much more. The numbers management part is especially important. Having sat through a number of these judging seminars, I am here to tell you that every tenth of a point is taken VERY seriously. I say the judging communities consistency lies in the training of its members, not any conspiracy or shady dealings. Dan 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I like being underestimated :) Does make it sweeter at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 No, this assumption is dead wrong. The consistency of scores is not based on private previews among judges or behind the door conversations before a show. They are based on solid, consistent training. Too many people assume that these judges are just arbitrarily selected to judge and are then thrown into the arena to fend for themselves. There is extensive, and I do mean extensive training involved as well as trial judging that takes place before someone is allowed to put a number on a sheet as a member of a panel. Training includes expected standards, sheet vocabulary, numbers management, box criteria and much more. The numbers management part is especially important. Having sat through a number of these judging seminars, I am here to tell you that every tenth of a point is taken VERY seriously. I say the judging communities consistency lies in the training of its members, not any conspiracy or shady dealings. Dan People like to make all kinds of accusations about judges on DCP, usually when the outcomes don't agree with their opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfever Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) No, this assumption is dead wrong. The consistency of scores is not based on private previews among judges or behind the door conversations before a show. They are based on solid, consistent training. Too many people assume that these judges are just arbitrarily selected to judge and are then thrown into the arena to fend for themselves. There is extensive, and I do mean extensive training involved as well as trial judging that takes place before someone is allowed to put a number on a sheet as a member of a panel. Training includes expected standards, sheet vocabulary, numbers management, box criteria and much more. The numbers management part is especially important. Having sat through a number of these judging seminars, I am here to tell you that every tenth of a point is taken VERY seriously. I say the judging communities consistency lies in the training of its members, not any conspiracy or shady dealings. Dan While true, I do think that sometimes we get to wrapped in individual show scores early in the season. I believe the more reads a judge has on the show, the better the evaluation in comparison to others. As long as it all comes out in the wash at the end. Just don't screw up the last show of the season! Edited July 12, 2016 by drumcorpsfever 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCI-86 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 4th in 2014, 12th in 2015. To be honest, it depends on the judge - and they are always conflicted about BS guard because, as someone already mentioned, they have pretty much the hardest book out of anyone, so the judge has to weigh that compared with their excellence (and because of their book, they are never sneaky clean) - last year they placed around 9th in Semis in guard and then 12th in finals. In 2014 they were 6th in Semis and 4th in finals. So clearly the judges judging approached the book v cleanliness somewhat differently. I expect their guard to get much cleaner - it's full of talent this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Well, I did not think that had any where near the toughest guard book last year. Crown did. 100%. I thought BS guard score suffered because of the failure of the whole Siamese twins bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCI-86 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Well, I did not think that had any where near the toughest guard book last year. Crown did. 100%. I thought BS guard score suffered because of the failure of the whole Siamese twins bit. I think they suffered last year mostly because of poor staging (a significant part of the guard caption) and they weren't clean enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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