BRASSO Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, ouooga said: As for the "6-10" fans on those other platforms, a single example, Blue Devils posted a photo from camp on Instagram at 6am this morning, and by 8:15am it had been liked by 1,172 individuals. Unless those 6-10 fans each have literally a hundred accounts each, I just don't see how it's assumed that people aren't engaging. We don't have to assume " they arn't engaging "publically. They arn't. There is no discussion format. And the social media sites that have a discussion format platform are WAY down in traffiic compared to even just a couple of years ago. This is not guesswork. The people that own the sites will confirm this for you, if you don't want to hear it from me. This site of DCP used to have traffic naturally dip in the off season, but not to THIS degree. DCP used to have upwards of a couple of hundred posters by April that daily would be on here at any given time of the day Thats all changed..Heck, most of the time the majority of mods have even completely disappeared from this site. So, yeah, we don't have to " assume that people arn't engaging ". They're not. Not here. Not elsewhere. Not at anywhere near the levels they used too. There is comparatively little to discuss with the 2017 Corps. When visitors hit a " like " on instagram ( for your example here ), thats not a " discussion ". And thats what we are " discussing " at the moment. Edited May 1, 2017 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) On 4/28/2017 at 3:34 PM, BRASSO said: Nope. First off, the judges don't care a wit about what anybody else thinks of a show and its design. So we can rule out in its entirety that off season silence ( or free flow ) of Corps info has any effect on scores and placements. It has none. Period. Secondly, you mentioned the Cadets. As recently as 2011, the Cadets gave fans lots and lots of off season info.. including early release of music and themes. In early May, the Cadets gave a full show music standstill and put it up live for fans across the country to watch. Was the show received well ? Not really. If anything, at best, it got mixed reviews, as fans discussed it here and elsewhere. Were the marchers in Cadets negatively effected by the lukewarm reaction to the off season airing of the entire music and its playing ? Heck no. We know this for a fact ? Yup. How ? Because the Cadets marchers went out and won themselves a DCI Title with the show.. AND... once the visuals/ guard was added to the show, the Cadets 2011 show was very well received by audiences in 2011 as well. Finally, the most dominant Corps in DCI are the Blue Devils. Hardly an off season goes by when they get very little favorable ink from the national fan base, either here on DCP, or elsewhere. Whether BD goes silent in the off season or talks like a singing bird, is immaterial. Their marchers are never effected by what others think of them. They have won titles with tepid audience responses, as well as years when audiences loved their shows. So no, imo, there is no competitive advantage, nor disadvantage, to the level of info Corps provide to its fans, and marchers performance levels in the summer are not effected by either pro hype, nor negative talk on info that might be released in the off season. There is a mountain of historical evidence to demonstrate that what info Corps release in the off season has no effect on marchers, nor judges, nor scores, nor placements, nor how how their show will ultimately be received by the fans that season. Judges are people. I'm not saying that rumor makes or breaks a show entirely. But in a competitive activity where the lion's share of value is found in subjectivity... yes... absolutely... theoretical discussions and impressions matter a whole lot before, during and after viewing a show. That's kind of part of the essence of the recap/critique room following a show. Part of it is to get feedback that isn't necessarily on the tape... or to get further explanations from the judges perspective. But the other (very important) part of it is to "educate" (condition) the judging community for further readings at subsequent shows. It's a time for everyone to offer an apologetic for what's happening on the field. Otherwise, there would just be tapes and sheets and everyone would move on to the next show. The pre-season (in this digital day and age) can be the ultimate apologetic (for the best or worst)... and drumcorps fans (which judges are) are watching and talking, just like everyone else. The system isn't a perfect accounting of numbers. It is the reflection of numbers derived from feelings (seasoned, informed, educated and finely-tuned feelings, but feelings none the less). I don't blame judges for being people. But I also don't pretend that they aren't. Judges have VERY strong opinions about programs, organizations and show design, just like all other fans. This is supposed to be subverted in the adjudication of a show and masked out from the "moment" of critique... but... they are most certainly humans. Some groups are finding it best to be quiet and let it all hit on the opening night... let the proof be in the pudding itself, rather than on the nutrition label and box picture/description on the store shelf. It's like putting a blindfold on the viewer (judge or not) and proverbially saying... "I'm not going to tell you what it is... just taste it and tell me what you think" The idea of "defeat" is not really limited to scoring either, in the context of this discussion. There have been shows that did quite well and persisted in spite of the negative fan talk surrounding it. But negative fan talk is nearly as undesirable for a corps as a low score is. Corps would rather have their cake and eat it too when it comes to fandom and scores. Secrecy can be helpful in that. Edited May 2, 2017 by cfirwin3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) Judges are not allotting show points at summer shows, based upon a pre season video of a brass standstill of music played in pre season ( no Guard/ Visual ), nor on a list of songs to be played, nor what duds the Corps will be wearing, etc and so forth. Yes, judges are people too. Presumably, intelligent people. Corps can come up with all sorts of " splainin' " for going into this new trend of off season Secrecy... but scores and placements arn't one of them that'll pass muster as a reason, imo. Edited May 2, 2017 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Just now, BRASSO said: Judges are not allotting show points at summer shows, based upon a pre season video of a brass standstill of music played in pre season ( no Guard/ Visual ), nor on a list of songs to be played, nor what duds the Corps will be wearing, etc and so forth. Yes, judges are people too. Presumably, intelligent people. Corps can come up with all sorts of " splainin' " for going into this new trend of off season Secrecy... but scores and placements arn't one of them that'll pass muster as a reason, imo. You know that you are extremely over-simplifying the point... and overlooking the value of audience opinion as a greater issue than the score... right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3D Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 On 5/1/2017 at 10:22 AM, ouooga said: I'm curious what more you're looking for. Actually curious, not making a slight comment here. I'm no admin on that page, but I'm actively personally trying to share more content now in an effort to get that ball rolling. Would love to help make FBDCP a more accessible medium however I can. Maybe someone just wants more info? You can roll the ball in any direction and whatever speed you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3D Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 13 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: You know that you are extremely over-simplifying the point... and overlooking the value of audience opinion as a greater issue than the score... right? score? Judges are people as someone said before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Just now, E3D said: score? Judges are people as someone said before. Indeed... a very wise person. But I was making MUCH broader points originally than just the idea that presupposition can have an affect on the score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, cfirwin3 said: You know that you are extremely over-simplifying the point... and overlooking the value of audience opinion as a greater issue than the score... right? No. 'don't believe so, anyway The audience rarely remembers what is released or not released in the preseason. They remember what is done in the summer. So whatever the corps release or don't release in the preseason is immaterial. Shows will live or die by what is shown in the summer. Theres no getting over that, imo. No amount of hype, nor secrecy, will have any effect on audiences at all by the time all the Corps busses roll into Indy. Thats how I view the secrecy throughout the preseason anyway. Nobody remembers the secrecy. They remenber only what they saw and heard.. and generally only that at Championships week. Heck, few will recall even the early season shows all these Corps had before the inevitable tweaks and rewrites take place, let alone what they gave us fans in preseason. So no, audiences are not effected by what is shown or not shown in preseason, imo. Edited May 2, 2017 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BRASSO said: No. 'don't believe so, anyway The audience rarely remembers what is released or not released in the preseason. They remember what is done in the summer. So whatever the corps release or don't release in the preseason is immaterial. Shows will live or die by what is show in the summer. No amount of hype, nor secrecy, will have any effect on audiences aty all by the time all the Corps busses roll into Indy. Thats how I view the secrecy throughout the preseason anyway. have to disagree with the emphasized statement if the threads of DCP have any merit. The summer threads critique not only the nightly performance but haters and homers both quote who said what during the winter, pre-season and ST. At times they make the media's treatment of Sean Spicer look like a sorority's pillow fight. In fact, the younger the poster, the more likely they remember what was done other pre-seasons while we olders gloss it all from decade to decade. Now if you mean Grandma neighbor of the kid next door seeing her first drum corps show because they are a nice family next door, that's another matter. Edited May 2, 2017 by xandandl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, xandandl said: have and disagree with the emphasized statement if the threads of DCP have any meritrof and ST. In fact, the younger the poster, the more likely they remember what was done other pre-seasons If you ask a non Bluecoats alum/fan under the age of 21, what did the Bluecoats produce for info for Drum Corps fans in pre season 2012, my believe is that, 95-99% of them won't remember. they'd have to look it up.. even if they were interested in preseason Bluecoats 2012. As for the older Drum Corps fans, depending upon their age, they might not recall what they had for breakfast that morning, let alone preseason 2012 released info from the Bluecoats. So no, imo, the secrecy we are encountering in preseason now on the part of the Corps has no effect on judges, nor the scores and placements, and little to no effect on audiences either. Thats how I see it anyway. Edited May 2, 2017 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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