BRASSO Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Corps_Efan said: I'm hoping that the judges continue to show approval for for innovative, modern, creative design! They always have since the start of DCI in 1972... provided of course, the Guard/ Visual is the best in DCI these days now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, saxfreq1128 said: I wouldn't go THAT far—it's not as if no other corps have had genius show designs with massive crowd appeal. This superlative still belongs to Star '93, Frameworks (02), The Zone (05), and Felliniesque (14), IMO. 2 of these 4 shows did NOT have " massive crowd appeal" with live audiences during the seasons they were performed however. I don't see much value in revisionist DCI history. The largest, most " massive crowd appeal " for a DCI Champion of recent years was Phantom Regiment in 2008, Carolina Crown in 2013, Bluecoats in 2016 ( recent years ), and SCV in '89, Garfield Cadets ( '84), Cavaliers 2006 ( " The Machine " ) are some others that immediately come to mind. Edited July 22, 2017 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 48 minutes ago, MotoSurfBass said: TL;DR: Bluecoats basically won last year because they caught DCI by surprise. Now that everyone's doing it, Bloo no longer has a gigantic advantage. I would love to hear the judging tapes of the first DSU shows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 hour ago, MikeRapp said: This, to me, is the question that must be answered, then. The word "effect" is the issue for me. Effect means emotional impact, not just a critical analysis of the design idea. I know this is an age old discussion that will never end, and nor should it. This activity has evolved very quickly, really, since it's "rebirth" from a decade or so ago. There are a lot of reasons for it, but the result has surely been far more diversity in show concepts and a lot more emphaisis on designs being "shows" instead of technical expositions. But "effect" to the judges is very different from "effect" to the audience. I highly suggest you listen to this video judging the brilliant Cadets 2013 show on GE Music and see the types of things the judge comments on. I think that a lot of the stuff that is commented on is not something an audience member would necessarily be "emotionally" moved by (btw, nothing in the word "effect" implies some sort of emotional movement) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Cappybara said: But "effect" to the judges is very different from "effect" to the audience. I highly suggest you listen to this video judging the brilliant Cadets 2013 show on GE Music and see the types of things the judge comments on. I think that a lot of the stuff that is commented on is not something an audience member would necessarily be "emotionally" moved by (btw, nothing in the word "effect" implies some sort of emotional movement) This is awesome, thanks so much! Very helpful. When, and how, do corps directors get and keep GE judges up to speed on the things they are hearing and seeing? It's not lost on me how much of this is obviously intentionally included in the BD 360 videos. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitmusic Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Impossible to answer, because no one knows what GE is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudding Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) General Effect, as I mentioned in a different thread, should be completely divested from the reactions of either the audience or the judges. Instead, what the judges should be looking for is clarity in the show with respect to the design intent of the show designers and the cohesiveness of that intent. In this way, the "ideal" product can be evaluated (repertoire), and the success of the performers in communicating that ideal can be evaluated (performance). To use my old analogy, imagine a restaurant. The head chef designs a dish (the show design). This dish can be beautifully composed, or it can be a clashing mess. This is something that the food critic evaluates, completely independently of whether they personally enjoyed the dish or not (some foods just don't go together); this is the repertoire column. Meanwhile, the cooks in the kitchen may do an excellent job recreating that dish, or they may make a mistake during plating and ruin the intended presentation; this is the performance column. A good food critic will be able to tell what a well-designed and well-executed dish looks like, as well as a well-designed but poorly-executed dish, a poorly-designed but well-executed dish, and a poorly-designed and poorly-executed dish. The food critic is not the only person dining in the restaurant. All of the other patrons constitute the audience. While the food critic may or may not enjoy the meal for technical reasons, the everyday restaurant-goers may love the dish for whatever reasons they have; perhaps shark-and-parsley stew is an old family tradition. However, the normal diners' reactions should not have any bearing on the food critic's review, nor should the food critic's review have any bearing on the diners' experiences. Hopefully this post illustrates what I feel General Effect should be. Even if a judge doesn't personally enjoy a show, they should still be able to examine the show for clarity of design intent and cohesiveness of message. As far as audience experience, love what you love and don't love what you don't love, but don't expect the judges to reflect your opinions. Edited July 22, 2017 by pudding 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 11 minutes ago, MikeRapp said: This is awesome, thanks so much! Very helpful. When, and how, do corps directors get and keep GE judges up to speed on the things they are hearing and seeing? It's not lost on me how much of this is obviously intentionally included in the BD 360 videos. Probably during critique after a competition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Cappybara said: Probably during critique after a competition So do judges explain what they feel isn't working or could be improved? I would imagine this is something that has to be managed very carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Just now, MikeRapp said: So do judges explain what they feel isn't working or could be improved? I would imagine this is something that has to be managed very carefully. From what I've heard, yes judges will comment on what they think is or isn't working, but they avoid giving suggestions on how something can be improved 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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