DCI Scoring methodology

[Jeff Ream]

On 8/3/2017 at 5:41 PM, snare_guy_83 said:

Ok, so under that logic how are the Bluecoats 4th in Music GE or GE in general? 

Most of their program musically and visually is how you described the quad feature. 

Not trying to pick a fight, I just want to understand what is happening. 

ok so I saw them live. looking at it thru my lens of GE, it seems tome that many of the effects are similar in nature throughout the show...usage of the stage, usage of mics...the variety of effects at times seems a touch lacking. The kids are performing the hell out of it, but there is an innate sense of sameness top to bottom. Even last year with the ramps it still created a feeling of more variety being displayed

[Jeff Ream]

On 8/3/2017 at 8:55 PM, MikeRapp said:

Technically, as crazy as this may sound, GE actually has absolutely nothing to do with crowd reaction. As it was recently explained to me here, a corps GE score should be identical in an empty stadium as it is on finals night. It is what it is, apparently.

audience engagement is part of it. Now remember, the judge is also part of the audience, they just happen to have sheets with criteria on it in front of them. when judging GE, i've scored shows I've loved low because they didnt meet the sheets requirements and I've scored shows i didnt like high because the show did meet the criteria. GE is not about popularity or burning babies thrown from the stands. Some of the most beloved shows of all time were dirty as ####.

[Jeff Ream]

On 8/4/2017 at 11:17 AM, cowtown said:

 This is so silly but I’ll play

So in the same situation, how do you know how much it will effect the build up?

Both systems are flawed, both are subjective and both are still used together as a tic will down rate a build up.

I just don’t get why the anti-tic zealots are so sure their system is prefect when both systems have the same human factor of subjectivity, they act as if build up made everything accurate and fair. Wrong !

Going away from tic was that start of massive, musical watering and getting away from music in favor of visual

 

and no, I'm not saying bring back the tic, just be real

i'll take this system because the sheets have specific criteria on them. They can be tracked at any time....once a recording goes into Competition Suite, an administrator can log on from anywhere in the country to be sure the tape matches the number. if it doesn't, you can guarantee that judge has heard about it within 24-48 hours.

[Just Here]

Maybe the GE category should be assimilated in the performance and analysis categories??? I say this because it seems that too much emphasis in GE seems to be on show design and concept, none of which is with the performer's control. I don't understand why performers should be penalized in anyway for elements they really have no say in?

Edited August 7, 2017 by Just Here

[barigirl78]

3 hours ago, Just Here said:

Maybe the GE category should be assimilated in the performance and analysis categories??? I say this because it seems that too much emphasis in GE seems to be on show design and concept, none of which is with the performer's control. I don't understand why performers should be penalized in anyway for elements they really have no say in?

Judging the General Effect caption isn't supposed to be entirely about design, but also:  (paraphrasing from the sheets)

• How much the performers engage with the audience
• How they deliver the effects
• How they embody their characters, roles, or styles
• How they communicate detail and nuance

A corps with a flat, tired performance of their show should receive a lower GE score than they do when they are on fire.  I think last year's Bluecoats show is a good example.  While the innovative design was certainly worthy of high marks, it was also performed with a lot of gusto.  You could tell the members were having a blast performing it.

[Just Here]

6 minutes ago, barigirl78 said:

Judging the General Effect caption isn't supposed to be entirely about design, but also:  (paraphrasing from the sheets)

• How much the performers engage with the audience
• How they deliver the effects
• How they embody their characters, roles, or styles
• How they communicate detail and nuance

A corps with a flat, tired performance of their show should receive a lower GE score than they do when they are on fire.  I think last year's Bluecoats show is a good example.  While the innovative design was certainly worthy of high marks, it was also performed with a lot of gusto.  You could tell the members were having a blast performing it.

Excellent answer. Thank you. I do not know the details about the judging philosophy, but I hope design plays NO part in GE.

[MikeRapp]

4 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

ok so I saw them live. looking at it thru my lens of GE, it seems tome that many of the effects are similar in nature throughout the show...usage of the stage, usage of mics...the variety of effects at times seems a touch lacking. The kids are performing the hell out of it, but there is an innate sense of sameness top to bottom. Even last year with the ramps it still created a feeling of more variety being displayed

Like it or not, the ballad has been the glaring issue with this show. It's great, yes, but it isn't as great as it has been for them. They continue to evolve it and tweak it, which is fine, but it isn't the emotional impact the last three seasons have been. The show feels very bookended as a result.

[Jeff Ream]

41 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

Like it or not, the ballad has been the glaring issue with this show. It's great, yes, but it isn't as great as it has been for them. They continue to evolve it and tweak it, which is fine, but it isn't the emotional impact the last three seasons have been. The show feels very bookended as a result.

I wouldnt disagree with that statement

[Candid Insight]

On 8/2/2017 at 4:15 PM, Stu said:

But how out of tune, as in wave length, does the horn need to be in order for it to be classified as a Tic? 1 wave length out of tune, 2, 3,...?  And if you have a judge with perfect pitch, who actually can notice A440 from a slightly sharp 441, would it not be fair for that judge to place any variation in pitch he/she hears down as a Tic?

I notice numerous posts citing intonation as being evaluated by the 'tic' system.  Intonation was never evaluated by the tic system.  It fell under Musical Analysis under the Intonation and Tone Quality subcaption.

[Candid Insight]

On 8/1/2017 at 9:57 AM, Stu said:

The real inherent problem with the tic system was in the subjectivity on when did an error become a tic. I guarantee you that in every performance, even finals, there were more than enough errors committed in any caption that a judge could drop it to zero by the ending gunshot. No way were horn angles exact, they were constantly in some sort of error; no way we're intervals exact, they were constantly in some sort of error; no way were the notes in exact pitch nor rhythms in exact timing, they were constantly in some sort of error. It was always at the judges 'subjective discretion' on when to call an error a tic thus deducting a tenth of a point. Therefore tear down tic or build up credit, both systems are completely subjective.

Intonation (exact pitch) was never evaluated by the tic system.  And although there was some subjectivity, many errors were quite obvious and were evaluated uniformly by all judges.   Examples would be a false start, a late release, a improper method attack, or an echelon that was clearly out of alignment.  There were judging clinics held back then to minimize subjectivity and increase uniformity in how the tic system was utilized.  There was some subjectivity, but it was far less subjective than you state in your post.