A question for the purists: was there more that could have been done?

[MikeD]

20 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

  I'm here to voice the opinions and thoughts of a growing number of THOUSANDS of drum corps fans who have already written you off. 

 

Who are these people? ( $1 to Jerry Seinfeld). 

With attendance growing at shows around the country year by year, I'm not sure how you make those statements, and how you can back them up.

Feel free to present your views as your OWN opinions, of course, but you can't really extrapolate them to others.

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by MikeD

[Bobby L. Collins]

2 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

In before the ban.

If you gave him half a chance, you might have discovered some common ground and added some worthy discussion.

I've been lurking here for years, and I've already pretty much identified the ones who were NEVER going to give me a chance before I even posted.  And largely, I was right.  I haven't liked what he (and his team of sunshine pumpers) have been saying for years, but I gave them all a chance to discuss these issues.  As evidenced by their flames and refusal to discuss anything in turn, they decided not to give me a chance.  That's on them.  But like I've said, I'm not here to change their minds.  I'm here to add a different viewpoint, one shared by lots of people who wrote drum corps off 17 years ago, and whose "wild" predictions about where the activity was headed have turned out to be entirely accurate.  And I'm not the only one here who feels the way I do.

I've taken the time to outline and detail my thoughts and concerns.  All they've taken the time to do is troll.  End of story.

[oldcadetsop]

32 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

See?  It's so easy to identify to people who have had been complicit in the dilution of this activity.  Your refusal to listen to those all around you who have been saying "This isn't right, this shouldn't be happening" for the past 17 years, coupled with your refusal to afford someone the courtesy of reading their thoughts on the subject, acting instead like a 12 year-old internet troll, that tells me precisely how closed-minded and vapid you are.  Fine, I'd rather know that now than later.  I'm not here to jump in the circle and scream along with you in your little echo chamber.  I'm here to voice the opinions and thoughts of a growing number of THOUSANDS of drum corps fans who have already written you off.  I don't care if you like it.  I don't care if you approve of it.  I don't even care if you read a single word I type.  But if you're not going to........then you have absolutely no business replying.  Because when you do so, you don't have a leg to stand on.  All you are is a troll, and everyone who isn't in your little group of sunshine pumpers will recognize and label you as such.

 

Laughable.

Bobby, trust me, I get your point. Your opinion. All good. But as I and any have said, insults, degrading, will get you nowhere.

LOL. I would pay to be there when you spill your page long diatribes to a director, staff member in person. Maybe you can get Flo to broadcast it. LOL you would last 2 seconds.

[oldcadetsop]

12 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

I've been lurking here for years, and I've already pretty much identified the ones who were NEVER going to give me a chance before I even posted.  And largely, I was right.  I haven't liked what he (and his team of sunshine pumpers) have been saying for years, but I gave them all a chance to discuss these issues.  As evidenced by their flames and refusal to discuss anything in turn, they decided not to give me a chance.  That's on them.  But like I've said, I'm not here to change their minds.  I'm here to add a different viewpoint, one shared by lots of people who wrote drum corps off 17 years ago, and whose "wild" predictions about where the activity was headed have turned out to be entirely accurate.  And I'm not the only one here who feels the way I do.

I've taken the time to outline and detail my thoughts and concerns.  All they've taken the time to do is troll.  End of story.

LOL.YOU gave them a chance. Oh boy.

[Bobby L. Collins]

21 minutes ago, MikeD said:

Who are these people? ( $1 to Jerry Seinfeld). 

With attendance growing at shows around the country year by year, I'm not sure how you make those statements, and how you can back them up.

Feel free to present your views as your OWN opinions, of course, but you can't really extrapolate them to others.

 

 

 

So because they're not here, they don't exist?

That's really narrow-minded.  OF COURSE they're not here.  They gave up on you.  They gave up on the activity.  You lot ran most of them off years ago with your incessant trolling and hive mind mentality.  That doesn't change the fact that they exist.  Eliminating bugles was an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  Adding microphones and speakers was an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  Ditching uniforms for leotards has proven to be an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  You guys REALLY need to step outside your insular bubble and take note of what is happening outside it.  They're out there, and they're tired of even trying to get through to you, or to DCI.  They make fun of the activity now, and of how camp it has become.  Me?  I simply haven't given up on it yet.  And if the day comes when I decide to do so, it will be on MY terms, not on the terms of a group of trolls on a message board who have insulated themselves with like minds, none of whom can handle dissenting opinions.

Growing attendance and ticket sales mean bugger-all if they can't keep up with the escalating costs of DCI's arms race of frivolous and needless props and electronics...not to mention tour fees that only the most privileged kids with the biggest trust funds can afford.  You can't claim that DCI is growing when it's only catering to those willing to shell out the growing expense to watch and/or participate in the activity.  Of course revenue is up....IT COSTS MORE.

I firmly believe that drum corps can be saved from its own stupidity.  I may be totally mistaken in that it can, but that's how much I care about the activity.  And I will continue to speak out for rational thought, common sense, and temperance among a group that has abandoned all that for decadent excess and frivolity, whether that group likes it or not.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Bobby L. Collins

[oldcadetsop]

10,9, 8,7,6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1,..................................................lol

[BRASSO]

1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

we all know over the decades DCI hasn't been honest about a lot of things

 The IRS however does not take too kindly to any non profit organization ( DCI ) attempts to inflate or deceive on paid ticket receipts, and the official numbers that would coincide with that. DCI would have a much bigger problem on their hands if they are reporting inaccurate Attendance figures than what they officially announced to the public. Also the, IRS "  formula " for reporting such numbers to the IRS was no different in 1981, nor through the1990's, nor today here in 2017.

Edited August 16, 2017 by BRASSO

[garfield]

On 8/12/2017 at 8:14 PM, Bobby L. Collins said:

As long as they bring something to the table other than "ur a troll dewd" or "i got half a million posts here i kno more than u", or "things aint changin u can't do nuffin", then that's fine.  Otherwise, they're beneath my contempt.  I really only have time to have discussions with the smart people on here.  The others will have to find someone else to bait".

 

On 8/11/2017 at 1:02 PM, Bobby L. Collins said:

Is that really your only input, Stu?  I was hoping you'd dissect my points and provide some insightful feedback.  I mean, that's literally all I asked you to do earlier.  But if you just want to troll, I'll tell you exactly the same thing I told you in the other thread.  

But I'll add this.  You haven't even seen snark yet.  And I'd kind of like to keep it that way.  So don't test me, ok?

 

On 8/11/2017 at 1:15 PM, Bobby L. Collins said:

Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder if anyone truly gets where I'm coming from.  Actually, that's not fair.  I know many do.  But those individuals have simply already given up on the activity, and do not comment on DCP.

I think people here are just so used to being beaten down by the same 5 or 6 trolls on here, they've just adapted a Stockholm Syndrome thousand yard stare.  I don't like it, but there's nothing I can do about it, so I don't want to read anyone else's thoughts on it, because it reminds me that I don't like it.

If you truly got where I'm coming from.......I don't think you'd be trying to change my opinion.

 

On 8/14/2017 at 5:38 PM, Bobby L. Collins said:

Strongly disagree.  I'll even go as far as to say that it can also apply to dinosaurs like myself.  If I wasn't a drum corps addict, I wouldn't have spent the past 17 years taking abuse from yes-men who lack the conviction to stand up for what they claim to believe in.   A lot of fans, like addicts, won't even try to be objective, nor will they try to apply common sense to their rhetoric.  As far as they're concerned, the modern activity is simply wonderful, educational and enriching, because George Hopkins says it's wonderful, educational and enriching.  Critical thinking and objectivity is the way forward, not bootlicking and pandering to WGI and BOA.

 

On 8/14/2017 at 6:41 PM, Bobby L. Collins said:

Pfft...only because you didn't think of it first.

I've got YOUR number too, buddy.

You're not insulted.  You're just looking for something to report.

 

15 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

No it isn't.  It's you immediately not discussing the issues and trying to make it personal....AGAIN.  Getting pretty pathetic, stu.

I don't have access to the directors of corps today.  Certainly nowhere near the access you claim to have.  I'm not on an intimate first-name basis like you seem to be boasting you are.  If that's so, then why don't you get on the Batphone and summon some of them here now?  I would value their input in this discussion greatly.  

Otherwise, my feedback has just as much chance to get to them through this message board as it does for me to call each director individually and get the runaround from their admins for the next 18 months.

Now, are we done, stu?  By all means, go ahead and get in your last word, because I get the tangible sense that's really important to you....far more important than a rational discussion.  I have made a solid effort to present my argument here against the use of amplification, dancing and leotards..........what exactly have you done, other than try to troll me?

 

1 hour ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

See?  It's so easy to identify to people who have had been complicit in the dilution of this activity.  Your refusal to listen to those all around you who have been saying "This isn't right, this shouldn't be happening" for the past 17 years, coupled with your refusal to afford someone the courtesy of reading their thoughts on the subject, acting instead like a 12 year-old internet troll, that tells me precisely how closed-minded and vapid you are.  Fine, I'd rather know that now than later.  I'm not here to jump in the circle and scream along with you in your little echo chamber.  I'm here to voice the opinions and thoughts of a growing number of THOUSANDS of drum corps fans who have already written you off.  I don't care if you like it.  I don't care if you approve of it.  I don't even care if you read a single word I type.  But if you're not going to........then you have absolutely no business replying.  Because when you do so, you don't have a leg to stand on.  All you are is a troll, and everyone who isn't in your little group of sunshine pumpers will recognize and label you as such.

 

 

36 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

I've been lurking here for years, and I've already pretty much identified the ones who were NEVER going to give me a chance before I even posted.  And largely, I was right.  I haven't liked what he (and his team of sunshine pumpers) have been saying for years, but I gave them all a chance to discuss these issues.  As evidenced by their flames and refusal to discuss anything in turn, they decided not to give me a chance.  That's on them.  But like I've said, I'm not here to change their minds.  I'm here to add a different viewpoint, one shared by lots of people who wrote drum corps off 17 years ago, and whose "wild" predictions about where the activity was headed have turned out to be entirely accurate.  And I'm not the only one here who feels the way I do.

I've taken the time to outline and detail my thoughts and concerns.  All they've taken the time to do is troll.  End of story.

Good ole' Little Bobby-Boy, the heir-apparent to the title of Chief Oppressor of Contrary Opinion, has just over 160 posts, despite having lurked here for a long time.  Above are just eight that I randomly picked from the over-30 pages of diatribe.  Notice any consistencies? I'm sure he'll say it's his message that's consistent.

But what they really show is his lack of training in common courtesy of actual discussion and debate; their commonality is that each has a snide insult to another poster.

MikeD has been showing the patience of Job in letting him spew his stink (most of which is summed up in "Get Off My Lawn!"), and I'm glad Mike has let Bobby-Boy rant.

If there were ever a case of evidence of the following, he is it:

"Keep your mouth shut and people think you're an idiot, or open it and prove them right."

Bobby-Boy, you should have stayed a lurking troll.  It suited you better.

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by garfield

[garfield]

4 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

So because they're not here, they don't exist?

That's really narrow-minded.  OF COURSE they're not here.  They gave up on you.  They gave up on the activity.  You lot ran most of them off years ago with your incessant trolling and hive mind mentality.  That doesn't change the fact that they exist.  Eliminating bugles was an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  Adding microphones and speakers was an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  Ditching uniforms for leotards has proven to be an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  You guys REALLY need to step outside your insular bubble and take note of what is happening outside it.  They're out there, and they're tired of even trying to get through to you, or to DCI.  They make fun of the activity now, and of how camp it has become.  Me?  I simply haven't given up on it yet.  And if the day comes when I decide to do so, it will be on MY terms, not on the terms of a group of trolls on a message board who have insulated themselves with like minds, none of whom can handle dissenting opinions.

I firmly believe that drum corps can be saved from its own stupidity.  I may be totally mistaken in that it can, but that's how much I care about the activity.  And I will continue to speak out for rational thought, common sense, and temperance among a group that has abandoned all that for decadent excess and frivolity, whether that group likes it or not.

AAAANNNNNDDDDDD.....

More insults.

Wow.

Keep going there, Bobby-Boy.  You're proving the point very well...

 

[garfield]

4 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 The IRS however does not take too kindly to any non profit organization ( DCI ) attempts to inflate or deceive on paid ticket receipts, and the official numbers that would coincide with that.

Now wait, Brasso.  Imagine...

The IRS calls in DCI because someone has reported to them that DCI is inflating its ticket receipts in order to inflate its attainment of its mission.

IRS dude:  "We don't believe your attendance numbers."

DCI dude:  "OK, what do you have to contest it?"

IRS dude:  "Umm, this guy over here named Bobby says you're inflating the numbers."  (Names made up to protect the innocent and throw fictitious tomatoes at the guilty.)

DCI dude:  "Umm, OK, what's HE got?"

crickets

 

Whether DCI's attendance numbers are off by 1000 or 10,000 doesn't matter one whit to the IRS because DCI's mission is to provide performance venues for corps to perform.  Once done, it's the corps that determine how many show up, right?